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OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

LeafOfFaith said:
I mean, is that not a shit deal?
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Nah, not a shit deal, just not the deal format I love the idea of personally. It's about the right value though and Masai could pretty easily turn around and use the newfound wealth in 1sts to go and get a player better than Pascal.

LeafOfFaith said:
We'd be trading a star like him for mostly futures?
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I think the issue is that Pascal isn't really a "star". He's more of a good 2nd option offensively. Robin, not Batman and not even an elite Robin. More Dick Grayson, not Jason Todd or Damian Wayne.
LeafOfFaith said:
I honestly prefer to keep him.
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I don't see the point in paying him 45-50 million to be our 3rd or 4th best player within the next 1-2 years personally. I want a basketball trade and not a bunch of rando 1sts, but I'm ready to cash out on the Pascal era after putting too much time into thinking about it.
 
zeke said:
hey we might get 3 more Dick/Kolokos from this deal!
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I think the idea is going to be not to use those picks. What they do is they close the gaps in our ability to make a trade for another player like Markannen or Spider who are likely traded this summer. Being able to offer 1sts consecutively and not staggered a year apart would be valuable in trade talks.
 
MindzEye said:
Nah, not a shit deal, just not the deal format I love the idea of personally. It's about the right value though and Masai could pretty easily turn around and use the newfound wealth in 1sts to go and get a player better than Pascal.



I think the issue is that Pascal isn't really a "star". He's more of a good 2nd option offensively. Robin, not Batman and not even an elite Robin. More Dick Grayson, not Jason Todd or Damian Wayne.


I don't see the point in paying him 45-50 million to be our 3rd or 4th best player within the next 1-2 years personally. I want a basketball trade and not a bunch of rando 1sts, but I'm ready to cash out on the Pascal era after putting too much time into thinking about it.
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I dunno, I mean you certainly are far more involved with the team than I am (especially the last couple of years), so you'd know better.

But I think Siakam is a star, and I wouldn't want to see us take a few kicks at the can with some draft picks in the hopes of getting someone like him.

If there's no good deal, just pay him and flip him later if something better comes along. Since when is it hard to dump a player like him if he's somewhat overpaid?

Unless the draft is stacked with studs, this would be a disappointing move, especially since the OG move kinda reset things in a good way. This would just dismantle everything, and then what, sign a free agent to fill the void, or hope the draft pick steps in immediately as an impact guy? Seems unlikely.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Bless you for thinking they use the 1sts to flip.
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Eh, Our best players are 23, 24, & 25 yrs old next year. Masai isn't going to slow roll a bunch of 19-20 yr olds in and see what happens over the course of 4-5 years. He's going to have cap space to fill holes, and draft equity to make moves with. He's patient until he's not and then he does shit. We appear to be in the "doing shit" part of the program. I don't expect him to stop doing things until he's happy with the roster.
 
MindzEye said:
Eh, Our best players are 23, 24, & 25 yrs old next year. Masai isn't going to slow roll a bunch of 19-20 yr olds in and see what happens over the course of 4-5 years. He's going to have cap space to fill holes, and draft equity to make moves with. He's patient until he's not and then he does shit. We appear to be in the "doing shit" part of the program. I don't expect him to stop doing things until he's happy with the roster.
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Moar Poetl's for 1's then? those sorts of moves? not trying to be cynical
 
LeafOfFaith said:
But I think Siakam is a star
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That's the problem though, he's really not and it's not that close. If you want traditional stats, he's 29th in points per game, 51st in rebounding, 38th in assists. That's kind of what he's good at. He can do a bit of everything but he's not really great at anything. Also, everything he does, Scottie already does as good or better and they're really the same position (Scottie is a modern SF/PF being miscast as a SG at the moment imo).

Advanced numbers paint an even grimmer picture of Pascal as a team lead offensive player. 47th in offensive EPM, 44th in offensive BPM. The advanced metrics thinks he's a secondary offensive player.
LeafOfFaith said:
and I wouldn't want to see us take a few kicks at the can with some draft picks in the hopes of getting someone like him.
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Neither would I, but this would give us the ability to flip the draft picks to get something as good as Pascal and younger/under contract or potentially better. 3-4 1sts probably gets us into the Lauri Markannen derby this summer and he's way, way better than Pascal and in need of a contract soon.

LeafOfFaith said:
If there's no good deal, just pay him and flip him later if something better comes along. Since when is it hard to dump a player like him if he's somewhat overpaid?
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Ask Chicago. They haven't been able to find anyone remotely interested in taking on Zach Lavine's deal. That's the risk. A small decline, an injury, etc and we're sitting there with a massive albatross on the cap structure through a period of time where Scottie-IQ-RJ are all relatively cheap (the 3 of them take up ~30% of what we're going to spend on salaries next year....take advantage of that shit). I don't see the upside in it tbh. We've seen them together now and it's not contender level. Why throw all that coin at Pascal to be pretty good from 30-33 yrs old?
 
MindzEye said:
That's the problem though, he's really not and it's not that close. If you want traditional stats, he's 29th in points per game, 51st in rebounding, 38th in assists. That's kind of what he's good at. He can do a bit of everything but he's not really great at anything. Also, everything he does, Scottie already does as good or better and they're really the same position (Scottie is a modern SF/PF being miscast as a SG at the moment imo).

Advanced numbers paint an even grimmer picture of Pascal as a team lead offensive player. 47th in offensive EPM, 44th in offensive BPM. The advanced metrics thinks he's a secondary offensive player.


Neither would I, but this would give us the ability to flip the draft picks to get something as good as Pascal and younger/under contract or potentially better. 3-4 1sts probably gets us into the Lauri Markannen derby this summer and he's way, way better than Pascal and in need of a contract soon.



Ask Chicago. They haven't been able to find anyone remotely interested in taking on Zach Lavine's deal. That's the risk. A small decline, an injury, etc and we're sitting there with a massive albatross on the cap structure through a period of time where Scottie-IQ-RJ are all relatively cheap (the 3 of them take up ~30% of what we're going to spend on salaries next year....take advantage of that shit). I don't see the upside in it tbh. We've seen them together now and it's not contender level. Why throw all that coin at Pascal to be pretty good from 30-33 yrs old?
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Fair points. At least I'll feel a bit better if a trade like this rumored one goes down.

Do we have our own 1st right now? The only bright side this season would be if losing Siakam lets us sink low enough to get a good player.
 
drewser said:

View: https://x.com/esidery/status/1747433095052050829?s=61
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Brown + Toppin + Isaiah Jackson and a bucket of 1sts?

Jackson is a sneak candidate to be a legit solid rim runner big. Toppin is a legit legit athlete who struggles defensively but can score the ball and Brown is a really okay swiss army knife point of attack defensive guard who can do enough offensively to not hurt you.

C - Jake
PF - Scottie
SF - RJ
SG - Brown
PG - Quickley

6 - Dennis
7 - Toppin
8 - Jackson

Isn't a bad place to hit the off season with a bag of cap space and a bundle of 1sts with.
 
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