OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread
- Thread starter hockeylover
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MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Took him a year and a half to realize that Boucher is his best bench player.
So nah.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
These guys are going to pick like 8th
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Eh, people keep forgetting how flat the lottery odds are now.
If the season was a complete fucking disaster and they finished 3rd last? 14% chance of picking 1st.
If we go 19-18 over the last 37 games, finish with 33 wins and finish 9th last? 4.5% chance of picking 1st
Less? Sure, but is entering the summer not having a fucking clue if this program needs to be torn down again worth an extra 10% shot at Flagg? Nah. Finishing 9th would still give us a 20.2% chance of moving up into the top 4.
You win more by winning more, and lose more by losing more. The only exceptions to that are the rare generational talents when they're about to hit the league.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Its less about picking 1 and more about feeling better about 2-5 than 5-9, but i get it and agree with you.
Its just irritating i dont see us getting anything more than 2nds for these dudes ( except Jake, who i think stays)
And i'd rather extend Boucher than get a 2
There is no Wemby franchise changer in this draft
An 8th pick could be the best player
Jimmy is a fucken clown
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
He's an absolute terrorist.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Most consensus 1sts aren't franchise altering talents. Thats the core reason that purposeful tanking is dumb. For example, Cade was a lovely prospect and looks really good this year but it took until year 4 for Cade to look like a fringe all star type guy. Is a guy like that worth being purposefully bad for a few seasons to get?
If you stumble into it because of injuries or players aging out, whatever. But you should be trying to build a good team and supplementing that good team with lottery pick talents. Not sucking for long enough that you build up a bunch of lottery picks whose only experience in the league is losing 50+ games a year together until the organization magically decides that its time to be competitive.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Moar silly season:
- The list of Boucher suitors is growing: Denver, Clippers, Knicks & "other teams" have reportedly checked in. Not gonna lie, something like Mo Bamba + Bones Hyland from the Clippers would be interesting. I've always wondered why both ended up buried on good rosters. Both appear to have legit NBA skillsets.
- Denver still wants Bruce. Kelly still drawing interest from playoff teams as well. I'm going to say that most are hoping that we're willing to punt on these guys, and I don't think that's Masai's MO. If he doesn't get offers he likes, I think he'll just look to stand pat and re sign Bruce and Boucher, especially with the way we're looking in the run up to the deadline.
- Beal appears to be entirely content cock blocking a Jimmy Butler move to Phoenix by enforcing his no trade clause. Isn't very interested in going to milwaukee or chicago apparently. Suns are also trying to trade Nurkic, but not as a salary dump, they want value for him.
- The Jimmy market appears to be getting wider though, which probably means Miami's initial ask of rotation player(s) + multiple 1sts is coming down and more teams see the risk/reward as making sense. I could seriously see this end without a trade. It's just so hard to make the money work if Miami is expecting a decent return for him and a 3rd team is needed to take on bad money (and expects more than a few 2nds for their troubles...which they should).
- The list of Boucher suitors is growing: Denver, Clippers, Knicks & "other teams" have reportedly checked in. Not gonna lie, something like Mo Bamba + Bones Hyland from the Clippers would be interesting. I've always wondered why both ended up buried on good rosters. Both appear to have legit NBA skillsets.
- Denver still wants Bruce. Kelly still drawing interest from playoff teams as well. I'm going to say that most are hoping that we're willing to punt on these guys, and I don't think that's Masai's MO. If he doesn't get offers he likes, I think he'll just look to stand pat and re sign Bruce and Boucher, especially with the way we're looking in the run up to the deadline.
- Beal appears to be entirely content cock blocking a Jimmy Butler move to Phoenix by enforcing his no trade clause. Isn't very interested in going to milwaukee or chicago apparently. Suns are also trying to trade Nurkic, but not as a salary dump, they want value for him.
- The Jimmy market appears to be getting wider though, which probably means Miami's initial ask of rotation player(s) + multiple 1sts is coming down and more teams see the risk/reward as making sense. I could seriously see this end without a trade. It's just so hard to make the money work if Miami is expecting a decent return for him and a 3rd team is needed to take on bad money (and expects more than a few 2nds for their troubles...which they should).
Dickhead`s 50+ mil opt in next year is an issue to make a trade
Heat are not netting the previous type deals prior to the apron rules which act as a salary cap
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Sounds like a lot of the teams interested are fine with him being a rental, or triggering the option year. What they don't want is Jimmy coming in and throwing a tantrum because they're not willing to extend him. Phoenix is the only team willing to extend him, but can only do it if they move Beal, but Beal doesn't want to go to the places who have shown willingness to take him and he has a full no trade.
Yup not an easy deal
Why resign Boucher and Brown ?
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Good vets who are useful in our rotation. I hate force feeding kids minutes, I don't think it's good for their development to get caved the fuck in. They develop bad loser habits and get used to being a bad loser. There's a reason why teams like Miami keep generating good role players out of thin air. They come up in a competitive environment where you get minutes by performing well in practice against other actual NBA calibre players, and then performing when given an opportunity in games. If you get caved, you sit. If you can't hack it in practice, you're riding the bus in the G.
In the new environment and given the injuries and performance since signing his last deal, I don't see Bruce making 20+ million on his next deal (I've seen 11-13 mentioned) and Boucher would also be a fair bit cheaper than this most recent deal. I think you'll see Chris in around 5-6 million on a 2-3 year deal and for his impact, I'd be happy if we were the one who signed it.
With that said, I'd prefer they both get traded...but that they get traded for actual assets and not just 45th overall picks spread over multiple years.
If I had to throw a few wishes out into the universe:
Chris to the Clippers for Bomba and Hyland (who we then re sign)
Brown to the Heat as part of the Jimmy deal and we get back Duncan Robinson and Nikola Jovic, we would have to add some stuff in to get Jovic...I'm good with that, including kids that we've recently drafted.
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Ok those salaries are manageable
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Yeah, I'm on that train personally. But I don't know if Masai is. There's a lot of position overlap between Lavine, RJ, and Gravy. That's a lot of below average perimeter defence we'd be running out there at the 2/3. I think the org is a lot higher on Gravy than I am as well, so I doubt they'd make a move to block him. They're still starting him despite being junk for most of the last few months.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
They're pretty in line with what guys in similar roles got in last summer's free agency as well. I'd put Bruce in a pile of veteran role player/fringe starter guard/wings with O'neale (4/44), DJJ (3/30), Hield (4/37), and Martin (4/35). Boucher is hard to put a value on because he's better than the role he's played here the last few years and he's hard to plug into a system, he's basically an agent of chaos that you hope the good outweighs the less than good with. Closest comparables in the market were probably Kyle Anderson (3/27), Kelly Oubre (2/16), Saric (2/10.5). I could see us trade extra years for a lower AAV in a place he doesn't seem to want to leave.