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OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

zeke said:
the overpay thing is funny because I mostly feel like we just added Kawhi for free. honestly not a single asset we gave up do i actually think is worth much.
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Kawhi replaces Ingram directly in all things. Position, role, salary, etc but is insanely better. We went from an okay Robin cosplaying as Batman to a top 5 Batman. Dick was going to lose all of his minutes this year. He was done in our rotation.

We have gave up 2 1sts from Scottie's 31 and 33 yr old seasons...those are highly unlikely to be good picks, and even if they are, for all of the complaining about the pick we gave up for Jake, the player taken with it is on his 3rd team already and doesn't look long for the league.
 
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LeafOfFaith said:
I agree with all that. If I were the Raps though, I would have made an attempt to bend them over and dare them to try to back out after all this, because I doubt they would want to keep a disgruntled Kawhi just as a fuck you to him and us. I think they saw the writing on the wall that it was game over for that roster and time to rebuild. And hey, maybe the Raps tried, I don't know. Like I said, I'm not in any way advocating that the deal still wasn't worth making, just that fuck the Clipps and them getting the same package that was set before all this came out.
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You and I have had this same conversation before and I just don't see the value in the min/maxing. It's not that it can't work sometimes, but I think the focus should be on getting things done for costs you're comfortable to pay and move on. Think about being on the Montreal side of the Knies trade for a second...imagine getting too cute to try to bend Treliving over a little bit harder is what causes him to humm and haww just long enough to not get the trade in to the central registry on time and you lose out. Opportunity cost is a thing. Which straw is going to break the camels back is an unknowable and isn't worth the risk.
 
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Sum of the average of BPM/EPM/EPMa/DPM/DRIP/LEBRON, listed as Starters (+ bench 5)

BOS 13.1 (+3.6)
TOR 13.0 (-1.4)
DET 12.1 (-1.2)
NYK 11.3 (-2.7)
CLE 10.9 (-1.6)
PHI 10.7 (-4.7)
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Oh the player components of the trade are absolutely like getting him for free. Grady sucks and Ingram is whatever.

And I guess that's actually bolstering the case for them to get the picks they did.

The part that bugs me is that the Raps are historically amazing at the draft table, so keeping even one of those firsts could be another CMB or something that we could add.
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eh I mean it's likely 2 mid 1sts which based on recent drafting is like trading for the next Dick and Walter 10 yrs from now.
 
MindzEye said:
You and I have had this same conversation before and I just don't see the value in the min/maxing. It's not that it can't work sometimes, but I think the focus should be on getting things done for costs you're comfortable to pay and move on. Think about being on the Montreal side of the Knies trade for a second...imagine getting too cute to try to bend Treliving over a little bit harder is what causes him to humm and haww just long enough to not get the trade in to the central registry on time and you lose out. Opportunity cost is a thing. Which straw is going to break the camels back is an unknowable and isn't worth the risk.
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It’s just a personality/style thing. I always try to get every chip off the table without letting the deal get away.
 
MindzEye said:
I always try to remember that the other guy gets a veto level vote on that. Spite is a powerful motivator and it takes less than you think to trigger it in some people.
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I mean, I've been practicing law and negotiating for 23 years now and I bent every deal as far as I could without ever breaking one as far as I recall.

Sometimes the power push pays off, and other times the reaction to the initial pushes makes it clear it won't be feasible, so you just have to be able to assess each situation. I just hope the Raps did try to push a bit to see if they could've improved it after everything that happened. But I'm pretty excited that the deal is finally done and the champ is officially back.
 
Ballmer doesn't have much to lose. I dont see the risk of pissing off an unhinged Billionaire by trying to take advantage of a situation all in the name of a pick swap or a 2nd.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I mean, I've been practicing law and negotiating for 23 years now and I bent every deal as far as I could without ever breaking one as far as I recall.

Sometimes the power push pays off, and other times the reaction to the initial pushes makes it clear it won't be feasible, so you just have to be able to assess each situation. I just hope the Raps did try to push a bit to see if they could've improved it after everything that happened. But I'm pretty excited that the deal is finally done and the champ is officially back.
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The juice needs to be worth the squeeze though, i dont give a shit about an NBA 2nd.

The downside of dicking around was much higher
 
So with the dust settled, the Vegas odds have only:
OKC
SAS
NYK
BOS
Philly

with higher odds than the raps to win the chip. But raps are roughly tied with the Cavs, Twolves, Pistons and Nuggets. Roughly 5% implied odds.

Can and will obviously. Do it deckie.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Not dicking around. Just exploring avenues to maximize the deal.

I don't care about 2nds either. But would've been nice to keep one of those 1sts.
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At a certain point, there are teams out there that would outbid the raps, fully knowing they'll only get 1 year of Kawhi and he won't extend. This was the offer it took to close the deal and the cost for an extended Kawhi is far lower than market value. Once you start dicking around, suddenly some other team out there may say hey, I'll take a year of Kawhi for package X because I think it gives us a chance.

But yeah idk the cap situations of those teams or if it would have even been possible at this stage. Shams said minny and Detroit were very interested if they could extend him.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I mean, I've been practicing law and negotiating for 23 years now and I bent every deal as far as I could without ever breaking one as far as I recall.
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and you've gone back to a deal already negotiated and agreed, but not finalized, to renegotiate it because the other party was in some sort of legal trouble?

I don't want to discount your professional experience entirely here, but I don't think it's as cleanly transferable to these type of deal as you might think. This is more like taking your competency, but now including the talent acquisition side of the business into each deal where a studio wants the same actor as another studio for a project, or an actor is competing against multiple other actors for a role, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you're involved in the process more or less once the smoke clears and the execs and agents have already made decisions but now it just needs to be on paper, right?
 
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