OT: The Toronto Blue Jays
- Thread starter PlayerToBeNamedLater
- Start date
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
your argument doesn't make sense.
it is little use putting a hitter with a high slg percentage in the leadoff spot. you are not going to reap the benefits of that player's full potential batting them leadoff. you don't need a home run hitter in the one spot.
and "anything speical" is a pretty vague measurement. i looked at it in real, relative terms.
eckstein's batting average and obp are both amongst the team's top four. the only players with higher obps from last year were all power hitters. his obp was even higher than rios's.
so it makes a ton of sense to put him in a position to get plenty of at bats to put himself on base for rios/overbay/thomas/rolen/wells. much more sense than it does to put hill, who barely topped a 330 obp last year, or rios, who needs to be in a position where his line drive power can be utilized to drive in runs.
your argument doesn't make sense.
it is little use putting a hitter with a high slg percentage in the leadoff spot. you are not going to reap the benefits of that player's full potential batting them leadoff. you don't need a home run hitter in the one spot.
and "anything speical" is a pretty vague measurement. i looked at it in real, relative terms.
eckstein's batting average and obp are both amongst the team's top four. the only players with higher obps from last year were all power hitters. his obp was even higher than rios's.
so it makes a ton of sense to put him in a position to get plenty of at bats to put himself on base for rios/overbay/thomas/rolen/wells. much more sense than it does to put hill, who barely topped a 330 obp last year, or rios, who needs to be in a position where his line drive power can be utilized to drive in runs.
zeke
Well-known member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
how often does a leadoff hitter actually leadoff an inning?
how is a double, triple, or homer in the leadoff spot less important than a single or a walk?
we've got plenty of depth of pop in this lineup, so there's no reason why you wouldn't move a power hitter into a non-traditional role here.
besiudes, the difference between eckstein's OBP compared to the likes of Rios and Hill this year will probably be marginal, and it would be no surprise to see both of the youngsters post a better OBP than him. that's because his OBP is only decent, not great.
Only one hitter on the team is likely to post an OBP significantly lower than Eckstein's, and that's Wells....and even that is far from a guarantee.
I like Eckstein, but you seem to think he's much better than he is.
how often does a leadoff hitter actually leadoff an inning?
how is a double, triple, or homer in the leadoff spot less important than a single or a walk?
we've got plenty of depth of pop in this lineup, so there's no reason why you wouldn't move a power hitter into a non-traditional role here.
besiudes, the difference between eckstein's OBP compared to the likes of Rios and Hill this year will probably be marginal, and it would be no surprise to see both of the youngsters post a better OBP than him. that's because his OBP is only decent, not great.
Only one hitter on the team is likely to post an OBP significantly lower than Eckstein's, and that's Wells....and even that is far from a guarantee.
I like Eckstein, but you seem to think he's much better than he is.
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
what does this have to do with leading off an inning?
it has to do with 1) getting more opportunities at the plate and 2) having a consistent opportunity to hit in front of the teams better hitters.
a leadoff hitter averages 1 more at bat per game than the 8th or 9th hitters. you generally want a player with a high obp and speed in that spot. eckstein fits that role.
besides, how many comparable leadoff hitters can you find to rios?
because the leadoff hitter is more likely to hit with nobody on base. because he usually either leads off the inning or hits behind the team's weakest hitters.
rios's, yep. but like i said, i'd rather rios hitting in the heart of the order, with some protection by the likes of overbay/thomas or rolen/thomas.
hill? it would be pretty unlikely. eckstein's career obp is .10 points higher. last year his was more htan 20 points higher. over the past three seasnos it's about 18 points higher.
what does this have to do with leading off an inning?
it has to do with 1) getting more opportunities at the plate and 2) having a consistent opportunity to hit in front of the teams better hitters.
a leadoff hitter averages 1 more at bat per game than the 8th or 9th hitters. you generally want a player with a high obp and speed in that spot. eckstein fits that role.
besides, how many comparable leadoff hitters can you find to rios?
because the leadoff hitter is more likely to hit with nobody on base. because he usually either leads off the inning or hits behind the team's weakest hitters.
rios's, yep. but like i said, i'd rather rios hitting in the heart of the order, with some protection by the likes of overbay/thomas or rolen/thomas.
hill? it would be pretty unlikely. eckstein's career obp is .10 points higher. last year his was more htan 20 points higher. over the past three seasnos it's about 18 points higher.
zeke
Well-known member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
when you say "wasting a power hitter" in the first place, I'm assuming you're talking about batting with the bases empty - i.e. leading off an inning.
Exactly - you want your better hitters getting 162 more at bats per year than your lesser hitters.
Exactly.
Giving your worst hitter more at bats than anyone doesn't seem like the best way to maximize offesne.
from world series winners?
Johnny damon springs to mind. Bernie Williams as well.
not true. Like you said, he gets one extra at bat a game - so he gets that one extra at bat with the bases empty, but then gets the same number of at bats with runners on.
So you have a problem with Rios hitting 1st with Eckstein ahead of him in the 9th spot, but have no problem with Rios hitting 2nd with Eckstein ahead of him at the 1 spot? that doesn't make sense.
Eckstein/Zaun gives you two .350+ obps at the bottom of the lineup, which means the leadoff guy will be getting plento of at bats with runners on base.
But this would mean that we're sticking a Rolen or an Overbay or a Stairs all the way down in the 7th spot, while giving a much lesser hitter in Eckstein the #1 spot and the extra at bats.
Hill is a baby. He's nowhere near his best yet, and nobody would be surprised to see him improve signifcantly on his career OVP this season. in fact, many would expect it.
when you say "wasting a power hitter" in the first place, I'm assuming you're talking about batting with the bases empty - i.e. leading off an inning.
Exactly - you want your better hitters getting 162 more at bats per year than your lesser hitters.
Exactly.
Giving your worst hitter more at bats than anyone doesn't seem like the best way to maximize offesne.
from world series winners?
Johnny damon springs to mind. Bernie Williams as well.
not true. Like you said, he gets one extra at bat a game - so he gets that one extra at bat with the bases empty, but then gets the same number of at bats with runners on.
So you have a problem with Rios hitting 1st with Eckstein ahead of him in the 9th spot, but have no problem with Rios hitting 2nd with Eckstein ahead of him at the 1 spot? that doesn't make sense.
Eckstein/Zaun gives you two .350+ obps at the bottom of the lineup, which means the leadoff guy will be getting plento of at bats with runners on base.
But this would mean that we're sticking a Rolen or an Overbay or a Stairs all the way down in the 7th spot, while giving a much lesser hitter in Eckstein the #1 spot and the extra at bats.
Hill is a baby. He's nowhere near his best yet, and nobody would be surprised to see him improve signifcantly on his career OVP this season. in fact, many would expect it.
O
othermike
Guest
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
Too bad about Casey Janssen, no like he was going to take the league by fire but his big chance to really prove himself and now he's gotta sit out the whole year.
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hnIi4MaO_KY-kRUUyLoUJe7QD6EQ
Too bad about Casey Janssen, no like he was going to take the league by fire but his big chance to really prove himself and now he's gotta sit out the whole year.
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hnIi4MaO_KY-kRUUyLoUJe7QD6EQ
Fitzgerald#11
New member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
forget about just this year, torn labrum is death a pitcher's career.
forget about just this year, torn labrum is death a pitcher's career.
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
i like rios in the leadoff spot, but if you knew anything about baseball you would know you want your best hitters in a spot in the lineup to drive in alot of runs. this wont come from the lead off spot.
that's why you got guys like eckstein who can get on base so guys like Rios can drive them in.
i like rios in the leadoff spot, but if you knew anything about baseball you would know you want your best hitters in a spot in the lineup to drive in alot of runs. this wont come from the lead off spot.
that's why you got guys like eckstein who can get on base so guys like Rios can drive them in.
MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
Well-known member
Fitzgerald#11
New member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
Plus he is playing for long term deal and you have to think another all star year (3rd straight) with 30-100-20 along with GG defense is gonna get him a 8 figure salary. Motivation will be easy to come by for him.
Plus he is playing for long term deal and you have to think another all star year (3rd straight) with 30-100-20 along with GG defense is gonna get him a 8 figure salary. Motivation will be easy to come by for him.
Last edited:
C
clubbies
Guest
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
Wow... you think Rios is going to get a billion dollars?
Seriously though, maybe 4 years 50 million if he has another great year. Still has 3 years of arbitration eligibility.
Wow... you think Rios is going to get a billion dollars?
Seriously though, maybe 4 years 50 million if he has another great year. Still has 3 years of arbitration eligibility.
Fitzgerald#11
New member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
my bad, long day
my bad, long day
MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
Well-known member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
And to think JP wants to deal this guy all the time. He has more raw ability than Wells.
And to think JP wants to deal this guy all the time. He has more raw ability than Wells.
Fitzgerald#11
New member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
Well I do think if your getting a guy like Lincecum you have to consider it. But yeah of course I'm happy to have him. Him Wells and Snider in a couple years time will be a nice triplet of 1st rd picks for us. Heck throw Lind in there as well
Well I do think if your getting a guy like Lincecum you have to consider it. But yeah of course I'm happy to have him. Him Wells and Snider in a couple years time will be a nice triplet of 1st rd picks for us. Heck throw Lind in there as well
MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
Well-known member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
No doubt.
Lind can be the DH.
Snider-Wells-Rios (wow!)
Lind as DH, Hill at 2B
Not shabby
No doubt.
Lind can be the DH.
Snider-Wells-Rios (wow!)
Lind as DH, Hill at 2B
Not shabby
Wayward DP
Well-known member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
I'd keep Overbay around as well. Really just need a catcher and shortshop
I'd keep Overbay around as well. Really just need a catcher and shortshop
MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
Well-known member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
Well what about Adams....tee hee!
Nah, I think Eck will be good for another year or two so maybe a new youngster will emerge then? Dunno.
Well what about Adams....tee hee!
Nah, I think Eck will be good for another year or two so maybe a new youngster will emerge then? Dunno.
zeke
Well-known member
Re: OT - The Toronto Blue Jays
the thing is, we have many guys who are comparable to Rios in terms of power and run production - all of Wells, Rolen, Thomas, Overbay, and even Stairs can give us similar production numbers in the middle of the lineup.
so, because we have a pretty impressive lineup overall, we can afford a luxury that most teams can't - putting a power hitter up top of the lineup.
the thing is, we have many guys who are comparable to Rios in terms of power and run production - all of Wells, Rolen, Thomas, Overbay, and even Stairs can give us similar production numbers in the middle of the lineup.
so, because we have a pretty impressive lineup overall, we can afford a luxury that most teams can't - putting a power hitter up top of the lineup.