OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

[MyNameIsJonas]

Hatch, 24, AA, 8-9 K/9.

Very pedestrian, but these guys are good at idrntifying chrap effective RP. Whatever for 1.5 years of Phelps

 

[MyNameIsJonas]

Hatch = almost 25yr old with crappy AAA numbers.

this FO can't help themselves with these guys. and yes, I'm sure his spin rate is good.

Yeah this is a fair take. Kd much prefer the 19 yo lotto tickrt

 

[zeke]

oh lol those are crappy AA numbers, not crappy AAA numbers. my bad.

 

[MindzEye]

They run this organization like it's the Oakland A's. They want every AAAA lottery ticket they can get on the hopes of dragging a useful bullpen or fringe starter out of their system kicking and screaming so they can avoid spending 3-7 million a year filling in their roster with veteran versions of those players.

 

[drewser]

Must have been a rough massage...

Ken_Rosenthal

#BlueJays closer Ken GIles visited Dr. Keith Meister in Dallas today, source tells The Athletic. An MRI revealed no structural damage in Giles’ elbow, but upon Meister’s recommendation, the pitcher received a cortisone shot. Will not pitch again before deadline.

 

[drewser]

GregorChisholm

This is borderline comical. Just yesterday, Montoyo was asked about Giles and he said he was fine and "working through it." The next day he's in Dallas getting an MRI? The lies that get told around this place sometimes just have to make you laugh.

 

[manny]

These 18 year old pickups also buy time for Shapiro and Atkins. When the players they aquire won't be on the team for 4 or 5 years it extends their own employment window.

For personal reasons for Shatkins it's in their best interest to start only targeting players that are half decade away.

Which again begs the question: Will we complete while Vlad is an affordable Blue Jay?

Unfortunately for Shapiro and Atkins, baseball prospects dont really work like this.

SWR has had a nice 70 inning stretch in A-ball. He has a bit of a funky delivery and developing (read: undeveloped) secondary offerings. The Jays seem to think he's better than every scouting service and apparently most other organizations think. So, maybe this time they are the smartest guys in the room.

But more likely, the 18-year old pitching prospect they just picked up will have stalled, been injured, or flamed out completely in a year or two. That's how most low-level pitching prospects usually turn out. In any case, whatever shine SWR has as the newly acquired prospect piece will be long gone.

As with any trade for prospects, there is a chance it could work out. Realistically, the Jays just traded Stroman for two guys with less ceiling, one of whom has a very high bust rate. That's a bad deal, no matter how you look at it. If this was really the best package available, there was no excuse to trade him.

 

[axlsalinger]

You keep pretending that Woods-Richardson is some A-ball lottery ticket who might be good someday. That just isn't the case, he is dominating right now, was a high draft pick and has a very high ceiling, according to top baseball prospect evaluators. It does suck that he's so far away but he's a really good prospect.

As for today's trade, Hatch does look pretty meh. Really it's a 32-year old okay middle reliever for a 24-year old potentially okay middle reliever.

 

[zeke]

thing is, A+ isn't even that far away.

if he finishes up strong in A+ this year, that means he'll be spending most of next year in AA or higher, which puts a realistic ETA in 2021.

 

[axlsalinger]

We're definitely targeting 2021-2022 as when we want to be good again. Hopefully he moves up quickly and can handle AA as early as next season but it seems pretty aggressive to have him in the majors at 20. Even 21.

It's so strange that we continue to have so few trades around the league. So many teams need pitching. Obviously there will be a flurry of activity tomorrow but at other deadlines, in all sports, there are usually a batch of trades in the days leading up to the deadline. This year in baseball, not so much. Teams are really clinging to their top prospects.

 

[manny]

thing is, A+ isn't even that far away.

if he finishes up strong in A+ this year, that means he'll be spending most of next year in AA or higher, which puts a realistic ETA in 2021.

Are they Jays assigning him to A+?

Because he hasn’t pitched there yet.

The Sally league is A-ball. The Mets have a team in the Florida state league (St. Lucie), which is A+.

 

[manny]

You keep pretending that Woods-Richardson is some A-ball lottery ticket who might be good someday. That just isn't the case, he is dominating right now, was a high draft pick and has a very high ceiling, according to top baseball prospect evaluators. It does suck that he's so far away but he's a really good prospect.

As for today's trade, Hatch does look pretty meh. Really it's a 32-year old okay middle reliever for a 24-year old potentially okay middle reliever.

I’m not “pretending” SWR is some A-ball lottery ticket that is years away.

That is what he is.

He was a 2018 2nd round pick.

His results in A-ball have been encouraging, no doubt. But it is a 20-start sample in A-ball.

He is 18. How many 20 year old starters are there in MLB right now? How many 21 year olds?

He is realistically at least 4 years away. That’s if things go relatively well.

The minors are littered with prospects who had short bursts of glory at a young age and then flamed out. Most orgs don’t turn that type of player into the top starter on the market at the trade deadline. The Mets just did. Hope they were wrong on this one.

 

[axlsalinger]

Stroman is not the top starter on the market, unless nobody's getting traded. People really need to understand this. Don't you remember how mediocre he was as far back as last year? He doesn't strike people out, he's short, and a bit of a headcase. I'm not trying to knock Stro, I do like him and he's been really good this year. But we also have to be realistic.

He's a good, at times very good, starting groundball pitcher. Like everyone else I would have liked to have gotten more for him. But he is basically at his ceiling right now. Maybe a little higher if you think he's a "big-game" pitcher, which we won't see in the playoffs this year because none of the contenders were willing to top this trade offer.

 

[Leafin']

Yankees in talks with Arizona about a Ray for Frazier swap.

 

[CaptainBolduke]

We're definitely targeting 2021-2022 as when we want to be good again. Hopefully he moves up quickly and can handle AA as early as next season but it seems pretty aggressive to have him in the majors at 20. Even 21.

It's so strange that we continue to have so few trades around the league. So many teams need pitching. Obviously there will be a flurry of activity tomorrow but at other deadlines, in all sports, there are usually a batch of trades in the days leading up to the deadline. This year in baseball, not so much. Teams are really clinging to their top prospects.

So you want a rookie to be the rotation when we are supposed to be good again? That seems unfair to him.

The Jays MUST start spending again if they want to be good in 2021. This is the AL East. Not the AL Central.

 

[axlsalinger]

So you want a rookie to be the rotation when we are supposed to be good again? That seems unfair to him.

The Jays MUST start spending again if they want to be good in 2021. This is the AL East. Not the AL Central.

That's how you rebuild a team. Acquire as many young assets as you can, and when you start to become good you assess where your weaknesses are, and fill those positions via free agency or trade.

 

[Leafin']

That's how you rebuild a team. Acquire as many young assets as you can, and when you start to become good you assess where your weaknesses are, and fill those positions via free agency or trade.

Bang on. I think as soon as this offseason we should be looking at the free agent market to fill in some of the gaps. Can't have this young core of position players getting blown out every game because the pitching isn't up to par. That's kinda why I would've kept and resigned Stroman but i think he valued himself more than we think he's actually worth.

Maybe Sanchez is finally over these blisters/finger problems and we can resign him to a bit of a discount. The talent/stuff are evident. Would be a nice piece of work to resign him while his value is down.

Sanchez + Borucki is a start. Add a quality FA. Add a Pearson. Maybe get lucky with one of these mid level guys panning out(Thornton, Kay, SRF) better than expected.

 

[zeke]

Stroman is not the top starter on the market, unless nobody's getting traded. People really need to understand this. Don't you remember how mediocre he was as far back as last year? He doesn't strike people out, he's short, and a bit of a headcase. I'm not trying to knock Stro, I do like him and he's been really good this year. But we also have to be realistic.

He's a good, at times very good, starting groundball pitcher. Like everyone else I would have liked to have gotten more for him. But he is basically at his ceiling right now. Maybe a little higher if you think he's a "big-game" pitcher, which we won't see in the playoffs this year because none of the contenders were willing to top this trade offer.

MLB Last 6yrs (i.e. since Stro’s rookie year)

87era- (T-#32 of 192 qualified SP)
84fip- (T-#19 of 192 qualified SP)
84xfip- (T-#20 of 192 qualified SP)

This season

64era- (T-#12 of 153 SP IP leaders)
77fip- (T-#24 of 153 SP IP leaders)
88xfip- (T-#39 of 153 SP IP leaders)

 

[zeke]

Are they Jays assigning him to A+?

Because he hasn’t pitched there yet.

The Sally league is A-ball. The Mets have a team in the Florida state league (St. Lucie), which is A+.

Yeah he's in Dunedin.

Mets had actually already promoted him to A+ but traded him before he started there.

 

[drewser]

Ken_Rosenthal

Source: #Braves acquire Chris Martin from #Rangers for Kolby Allard.