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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

GEEMAN said:
The last drafted positional every day player we had is Pillar for a near decade , embarrassing from our previous regime
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The organizational drafting focus was taking high upside pitching prospects because AA believed their was a market inefficiency regarding the value ascribed to them in trade value vs their real value to an organization.

He kind of turned out to be right. He also made it a point to target positional players in trade and free agency. Edwin, Bautista, Donaldson, Tulo, Travis (who looked really good until he fell apart physicaly), Reyes, Smoak were all guys added through trade. Martin through free agency.

It's kind of hard to knock the guy who built one of the best offences in baseball for not drafting position players, no? Especially when in his wake he left Vladdy and his staff were responsible for Bo.
 
Leafin' said:
Sanchez has had no value the last 3 years. The fact we got a crumb for him is a win.
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Well, just for clarity, we traded a guy who had provided 1.8 WAR over the last year years for a guy who had provided 0.1. Yeah, I'll take the mystery box please, it might be a boat. Fisher wasn't the mystery box.

If they moved him 3 years ago at the peak of his value this board with question would've lambasted them for moving a young cheap starter in his prime.
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Well, that would have depended on the return, no? He was a Boras client who historically had durability and control issues. If we had turned him into a veteran #2-3 starter (just hypothetically) that aligned a bit more with the win now focus the club should have had at the time, nobody would have complained.

I would be surprised to see Fisher put together a decent season next year. More valuable than the nothing/negative value the Astros got back for him anyway.
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Well that's an unfortunate typo.

Fisher is shit, live with it.
 
Edwin and Bautista were pretty similar to the Grichuk, Fisher types we see on the roster. Fortunate for AA that they exceeded anyone's wildest dreams. Unfortunate for Shatkins their guys haven't found the same luck. Donaldson was great trade.

I don't like how long it's taken either but there are some positives. Our young core of players have been developed under the Shatkins umbrella. Our farm system is looking pretty damn impressive. Gurriel looks like a steal for what we got him signed for. We have a top pitching prospect in baseball coming up. Some of our other IFAs are looking pretty good as well.

I'll take the development model Shatkins are following of drafting well and developing your own talent. Drafting players to trade them as some sort of market inefficiency worked out great for us at one point under AA. Not sure we should be looking to do the same. If he drafted better we'd have more players to trade or more players actually on our roster. Turns out that AA model gave us a great run without a title and a limited window to compete. Rogers is to blame for not letting AA play out what he started so I get that side.

We're not going to agree. But I like SOME of the moves Shatkins have made. I HATE some of the moves they've made.
 
MindzEye said:
The organizational drafting focus was taking high upside pitching prospects because AA believed their was a market inefficiency regarding the value ascribed to them in trade value vs their real value to an organization.

He kind of turned out to be right. He also made it a point to target positional players in trade and free agency. Edwin, Bautista, Donaldson, Tulo, Travis (who looked really good until he fell apart physicaly), Reyes, Smoak were all guys added through trade. Martin through free agency.

It's kind of hard to knock the guy who built one of the best offences in baseball for not drafting position players, no? Especially when in his wake he left Vladdy and his staff were responsible for Bo.
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Cmon ...... a near decade of not developing anything other than Pillar is a joke ME regardless if philosophy was to target free agency

Edwin and Jose were complete horseshoe luck deals , pure luck that saved our ass in the standings .

You could of picked a few pissed drunk in 300 draft rounds over a decade :D

Drafting was horrendous overall under the AA days , not much to show for under his tenure.

The Yankees / Sox have done an outstanding job at the draft table many core players are home grown .
 
Worst part of Fisher is that he's out of options for next year, so honestly would have come basically free in the offseason. Not like we have up much for him, but he probably would have been literally free in February.
 
GEEMAN said:
Cmon ...... a near decade of not developing anything other than Pillar is a joke ME regardless if philosophy was to target free agency
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It can't be viewed in a vacuum is all I'm saying. If you're not drafting position players on purpose, of course you're not going to develop position players. Overall, AA's drafting was very good (and it's the same staff that wanted Vladdy and Bo, so it's not like they were inept at scouting position players). AA has stated in interviews that his approach was to draft pitchers because he felt they had high trade value. He was right.

Edwin and Jose were complete horseshoe luck deals , pure luck that saved our ass in the standings
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Jose was luck. Edwin was a 25 yr old who hit 26 HR the year before that we got in the Scott Rolen trade. That's not luck.

Drafting was horrendous overall under the AA days , not much to show for under his tenure.
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AA's drafting wasn't horrendous in the least.

09 - Gomes, Paxton, Marisnick, Loup
10 - Bryant, Syndergaard, Sanchez, Green, Dyson
11 - Nola, Pillar, Desclefani, Norris
12 - Stroman, Borucki,
13 - Boyd, Graveman, Jansen

Too soon to pull any names out of 14 or 15.

The Yankees / Sox have done an outstanding job at the draft table many core players are home grown .
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Who have the Yankees drafted other than Judge? Gary Sanchez was an international free agent (like Vladdy), they traded for Torres. The Red Sox didn't do much better aside from Mookie Betts and Bradley.

The Jays have drafted better than either in that time period. Even omitting the guys who were known to be hard to sign that went to college instead (Bryant, Nola), the Jays drafted a high end starting rotation over that period. Noah-Paxton-Stroman-Boyd-Norris would be a top 10 rotation in MLB, maybe fringe top 5. You need to acquaint yourself with the drafting records of these teams you're jerking off about man, this is kind of embarrassing.
 
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Yeah, happy for the Nats team. If they won in the first few years after the move it would have stung as an Expos fan, but now they're just another squad.
 
it's also pretty cool to see them do this the year after they lost Harper.

crazy 7th inning. Greinke was in total control and then bam, new game.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Hinch managed that 7th on about as poorly as you can
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Definitely seems like one of those career-defining moments for him.

Pulls his stud pitcher at 80 pitches at the very first sign of trouble, after he'd dominated through six innings, and then the bullpen proceeds to let the Nationals blow the game wide-open from that point onwards.

The thousand-yard stare from Greinke in the dugout while that was going on is also one of those images that'll live on forever.
 
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