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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

MyNameIsJonas said:
It's not just the defense that goes from bad to elite, but also the baserunning.

Teo and Lourdes were abysmal baserunners, Varsho and KK are amongst league best.
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But they get on base way less. Also, Teo is hardly an abysmal baserunner. Gurriel, sure, but Teo is average at worst when healthy.

Something else I'm just not seeing mentioned is how bad they are against LHP in the outfield now

2022 wRC+ vs LHP

Varsho: 52
KK: 87

I mean, if Varsho doesn't get a lot better against LHP, he quickly becomes a candidate for being a platoon corner OF. Strong side of the platoon of course, but that's unplayable against lefties.

and for all this talk of "left handed bats!!" here's how they did against right handed pitching last season

Varsho: 121
Teo: 119
Gurriel: 119
KK: 91

What's the point of left handed bats that don't hit right handed pitching?
 
MindzEye said:
But they get on base way less. Also, Teo is hardly an abysmal baserunner. Gurriel, sure, but Teo is average at worst when healthy.

Something else I'm just not seeing mentioned is how bad they are against LHP in the outfield now

2022 wRC+ vs LHP

Varsho: 52
KK: 87

I mean, if Varsho doesn't get a lot better against LHP, he quickly becomes a candidate for being a platoon corner OF. Strong side of the platoon of course, but that's unplayable against lefties.

and for all this talk of "left handed bats!!" here's how they did against right handed pitching last season

Varsho: 121
Teo: 119
Gurriel: 119
KK: 91

What's the point of left handed bats that don't hit right handed pitching?
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First i would be fairly surprised if they dont sign a lefty masher OF like Grossman, McCutchen, Duval or Pollock.

Failure to do so would be a fireable offense.

On the surface i agree with you, if the LHH dont hit RHP so great then what's the point, but i have heard several takes that opposing managers and SP simply find it easier to face an all RHH lineup. The SP get into a rhythm easier and the managers know they can rest their LHRP with ease. I dont know how much of this is nonsense, but there might be something to it.

As for Teo's baserunning, i love him, but the guy does have a bit of the case of the dummy
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
First i would be fairly surprised if they dont sign a lefty masher OF like Grossman, McCutchen, Duval or Pollock.

Failure to do so would be a fireable offense.
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Why do I feel like this is your canned response whenever a criticism is made about a certain part of the roster being mishandled? Then we end up with 3 replacement level jackasses taking 400AB each, Tanner Roark as our #2, and Dolis as our closer.

"yeah, this is terrible, but we're gonna go get this guy....." that we never go get. They go and get a bi-way version of that guy, some fucking rando with "yrs of control" , or some misfit toy like Tapia and then leak "but his exit velocity!" to the Rogers owned media for them to trumpet why this replacement level guy might be just as good as the real MLB'er available that they never go and get because risky/expensive/whatever.
 
MindzEye said:
Why do I feel like this is your canned response whenever a criticism is made about a certain part of the roster being mishandled? Then we end up with 3 replacement level jackasses taking 400AB each, Tanner Roark as our #2, and Dolis as our closer.

"yeah, this is terrible, but we're gonna go get this guy....." that we never go get. They go and get a bi-way version of that guy, some fucking rando with "yrs of control" , or some misfit toy like Tapia and then leak "but his exit velocity!" to the Rogers owned media for them to trumpet as for why this replacement level guy might be just as good as the real MLB'er available that they never go and get because risky/expensive/whatever.
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If they sign a bi-way version of Robbie Grossman ( whatever the fuck that is) i'll apologize profusely.

Admittedly, i tend to jump the gun assuming they will add more talent when they dont, but they lack a RHH lefty masher OF4 and i listed 4 of them that make sense, and if for some reason one of those dudes gets 400 PA against LHP, that's uh, fine?
 
MindzEye said:
Why do I feel like this is your canned response whenever a criticism is made about a certain part of the roster being mishandled? Then we end up with 3 replacement level jackasses taking 400AB each, Tanner Roark as our #2, and Dolis as our closer.

"yeah, this is terrible, but we're gonna go get this guy....." that we never go get. They go and get a bi-way version of that guy, some fucking rando with "yrs of control" , or some misfit toy like Tapia and then leak "but his exit velocity!" to the Rogers owned media for them to trumpet why this replacement level guy might be just as good as the real MLB'er available that they never go and get because risky/expensive/whatever.
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Haha, is bi-way the discount shoe store over there?
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
The bottom line the Jays are very flexible and very good defensively in the OF, regardless of where Springer, Varsho and KK play and are decently equip to handle injuries with Whit being very serviceable out there and likely another OF addition to the bench ( guessing Grossman)
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The defense is much improved, but there is zero depth when injuries happen. I do think they’ll add somebody still, but holding on to Gurriel would have solved that problem.
 
manny said:
The defense is much improved, but there is zero depth when injuries happen. I do think they’ll add somebody still, but holding on to Gurriel would have solved that problem.
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Lourdes at this point is a mediocre DH type coming off wrist surgery. It's very very possible to find this in FA
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Lourdes at this point is a mediocre DH type coming off wrist surgery. It's very very possible to find this in FA
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That’s a significant exaggeration, but if Gurriel has no value as you’ve insisted many times now, why did they have to include him? Trying to save money?
 
Yea Gurriel was fine here as a player. Seems like it might be an accountability/change of locker room dynamics type of thing. Plus his deal was up in a year so whatever. Hopefully they get another OF bat.
 
manny said:
That’s a significant exaggeration, but if Gurriel has no value as you’ve insisted many times now, why did they have to include him? Trying to save money?
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He shouldn't play the OF
His power might be gone, and he's coming off that injury

How would you classify him?
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
He shouldn't play the OF
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That's a bit dramatic. Last year was the first year of his career where he graded out worse than average defensively and even that depends on which system you like. DRS had him above average this season, UZR hated him for the first time.

MyNameIsJonas said:
His power might be gone, and he's coming off that injury
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Or...alternate theory. The damaged wrist that he played with for most of the season sapped his power, and an off season spent recovering will see most or all of his power return.
 
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