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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

I think if Gausman could have been issued a QO he'd have been in the same boat as Bieber, but we didnt have that leverage.

Based on the returns for rental SP i dont think what we got for him ( considering how he was pitching) is way off, im just annoyed with the profile of the guys they landed. Hoffman, because of his contract, and the fact at the moment he is a much better RP than Gaus is a SP, was always going to land us the best package, and they did a good job getting Hill.

Soriano was the only controlled SP moved and with the possibility of a cap coming, getting him in house for just one top 50 prospect could be a coup, if he's as good as the underlying numbers, and we can clean up his BB, then it might be just a really good baseball trade for both teams.

Arighetti, same kind of deal. If you told me prior to the deadline we'd get a 26 year old SP controlled til 2030 for half a seaon for Varsho i probably wouldnt believe you. Even if this guy is just a cheap bulk RP it's a win.

I dont think i care about Josh Smith or Jameson Taillon. In fact i would like to bundle Smith/Sosa/Schneider/Shaw all together and not see them play for the rest of the year once we're out of it and give looks to Bateman/McAdoo/Kasevich/Clase anything remotely interesting in AAA
 
UWHabs said:
Bieber can still be given a qualifying offer, so if he has a good last few months, you can give him that and either bring him back for that price, or get a pick for him. I'm guessing he just hadn't shown quite enough in his time back from injury that the team got any real offers for him.

Springer, given the 10/5 rights, probably only had a couple teams he would have been willing to go do, and so I'm guessing the team just got nothing offered back for him, probably not even salary relief.

The return on Gausman seems light, still. Both guys seem to have top end potential as utility players, not the sort of guys I tend to like to deal for. If Gausman was having a terrible season or something, then sure. But he's been a decent, if a little unlucky, starter this year. At least it feels like you should get back a few more guys like they got in the Hoffman deal, maybe longshots but with higher upside.

The big question still to me is whether it was worth moving one of your top prospects at the deadline for Soriano. Sure, it sets you up better for the next few years, but it feels weird to pay deadline pricing. Could you have waited until the off-season and got a similar deal?
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Verducci put it best , a prospect list doesnt mean much

Many of these prospects never make it and are only trade chips

Jays had a sold deadline day adding 2 controllable arms to round out our staff next season and adding depth
 
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You might need one SP ( depending on what Arighetti is, and what Bieber looks like) in the offseason and a Hoffman replacement, but the pitching looks more or less like a secondary need ( that said i expect them to be involved on Skubal)

Bats are a nightmare.

Barger is the only OF locked in, and who knows when he's back or what he looks like. LF/CF are gross

SS and DH are locked in but both might be terrible boat anchors that cant hit.

1B/3B/C/2B are locked in

Bench is more or less a mess, save for Valenzuela

The glut of LHH OF 4/5 in Lukes/Sanchez/Bateman/4A guys likely doesn't yield a single starter, but probably a decent platoon guy, that needs a RHH friend

Straw and Davis cant be those friends
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
You might need one SP ( depending on what Arighetti is, and what Bieber looks like) in the offseason and a Hoffman replacement, but the pitching looks more or less like a secondary need ( that said i expect them to be involved on Skubal)

Bats are a nightmare.

Barger is the only OF locked in, and who knows when he's back or what he looks like. LF/CF are gross

SS and DH are locked in but both might be terrible boat anchors that cant hit.

1B/3B/C/2B are locked in

Bench is more or less a mess, save for Valenzuela

The glut of LHH OF 4/5 in Lukes/Sanchez/Bateman/4A guys likely doesn't yield a single starter, but probably a decent platoon guy, that needs a RHH friend

Straw and Davis cant be those friends
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the hope is Santander and Barger are healthy and ready to go
 
current combined projections for our bats:

1B Guerrero 135wrc+
DH Springer 116
C Kirk 113
3B Okamoto 112
LF Sanchez 107
RF Lukes 106
2B Clement 98
SS Gimenez 90
CF Straw 75

UT Schneider 102
IF Urias 100
UT Smith 98
C Valenzuela 81

we've hurt ourselves by ditching Varsho (projected 99wrc+), but the lineup still projects as a solidly above average offense.
 
GEEMAN said:
the hope is Santander and Barger are healthy and ready to go
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Even when we signed Santander he was coming off a 40 HR 800 OPS year, thats concerning in and of itself

He's a 1 trick pony who relies heavily on bat speed and is going to be 2 shoulder surgeries and roughly 2 years removed from playing, and will be in his mid 30's
 
zeke said:
current combined projections for our bats:

1B Guerrero 135wrc+
DH Springer 116
C Kirk 113
3B Okamoto 112
LF Sanchez 107
RF Lukes 106
2B Clement 98
SS Gimenez 90
CF Straw 75

UT Schneider 102
IF Urias 100
UT Smith 98
C Valenzuela 81

we've hurt ourselves by ditching Varsho (projected 99wrc+), but the lineup still projects as a solidly above average offense.
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Springer needs to be replaced next year.

Im not confident Santander can do it.

If you're cool with Gimenez and a Straw/Friend combo at the bottom of the order, bless you, but i'm not.

I think Lukes, on a WS team anyways is better served as an OF4 but i could live with him as a starter
 
zeke said:
bats aren't a nightmare. Varsho hit 4th for the playoffs Astros last night.

we've convinced ourselves that the jays players are worse than they are.
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It depends on whether guys play to their projections. If Vlad is a 135 OPS+ bat we're in better shape. When he's a 95 OPS+, we're terrible.

Even if he's back to power, we'll need a replacement for Springer, and definitely need an upgrade on Straw. Unfortunately finding a 110+ CF who can play a reliable defense is likely not coming. The hope is that between Sanchez/Lukes/Barger/Santander/etc we can have a couple of them break out to be 110 or 120 OPS+. If Vlad is back, and you get a couple of them to be legit bats, combined with Kirk/Okamoto, it's not that bad, even if you have some sub-par players like Gimenez, Clement, and whoever plays CF.
 
Considering the FA market is deeper for SP

Who here would be willing to include Yesavage in a deal for Wyatt Langford in the offseason? Rumor is, Rangers were listening on he and everybody else. I'd be keen on a Seager deal too i think
 
UWHabs said:
It depends on whether guys play to their projections. If Vlad is a 135 OPS+ bat we're in better shape. When he's a 95 OPS+, we're terrible.

Even if he's back to power, we'll need a replacement for Springer, and definitely need an upgrade on Straw. Unfortunately finding a 110+ CF who can play a reliable defense is likely not coming. The hope is that between Sanchez/Lukes/Barger/Santander/etc we can have a couple of them break out to be 110 or 120 OPS+. If Vlad is back, and you get a couple of them to be legit bats, combined with Kirk/Okamoto, it's not that bad, even if you have some sub-par players like Gimenez, Clement, and whoever plays CF.
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Im okay with my CF being a lite hitter, if the glove is stellar.

I just dont like using 2 roster spots to do it, and i dont love it in conjunction with Gimenez being a hurtbag too.

Ideally in Sept they give this Bateman guy a run, or whenever we are officially eliminated. You learn nothing this year by playing Myles Straw

Giving Lukes playing time in CF would also be high on my list
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Considering the FA market is deeper for SP

Who here would be willing to include Yesavage in a deal for Wyatt Langford in the offseason? Rumor is, Rangers were listening on he and everybody else. I'd be keen on a Seager deal too i think
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Yesavage is too valuable to move, even for Langford, I think. I mean maybe if you do like a crazy deal and get both Seager and Langford, that could really re-make the lineup, I'd certainly need to listen there.
 
I would just keep Springer tbh. I'm sure he'd be cheap.

And yeah obviously vladdy needs to hit again but i doubt he's toast at 27. Things can change quick - if you add just the 89pa in the playoffs (his most recent previous sample) to his totals this year, he's at an even 120wrc+ over his last 541pa. That's not even a month's worth of hot streak added to his current line.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Im okay with my CF being a lite hitter, if the glove is stellar.

I just dont like using 2 roster spots to do it, and i dont love it in conjunction with Gimenez being a hurtbag too.

Ideally in Sept they give this Bateman guy a run, or whenever we are officially eliminated. You learn nothing this year by playing Myles Straw

Giving Lukes playing time in CF would also be high on my list
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Yeah varsho was more valuable than people thought, given how hard it has to find a guy who can handle CF with a league average bat.

And the projections are probably lagging on Gimenez due to his injury last year limiting his playing time. It's been 3 years now that he's been significantly under that projection.

I don’t hope for a lot from Bateman tbh - he better be a legit quality fielder in CF because he's gonna be hard pressed to be a league average bat imo.
 
zeke said:
Yeah varsho was more valuable than people thought, given how hard it has to find a guy who can handle CF with a league average bat.

And the projections are probably lagging on Gimenez due to his injury last year limiting his playing time. It's been 3 years now that he's been significantly under that projection.

I don’t hope for a lot from Bateman tbh - he better be a legit quality fielder in CF because he's gonna be hard pressed to be a league average bat imo.
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Gimmy is just a terrible stick, and that one 140 WRC is a wild ass outliar.

I too am not remotely confident in Bateman as a hitter, sounds like the glove is legit though. Its why i want to try Lukes there, cause i'll take that stick in CF all day, much less enthused in a corner. I also have no real time for Clase/Sanchez/Shreck/Pinango as anything more than bench bats 4A talent.

OF needs to be addressed and hard in the offseason. Suzuki/Arozarena/Ward/Happ
 
91 WRC+ of this lineup this season is the second worst offense in baseball.
Lowest ISO in baseball. Least amount of runs. Projections can be what they are, but we can't survive another year of this.
 
Pitching Projections rest of year:

Cease 10gms, 5.6ip/gm, 3.28era, 3.16fip, 4.5war32
Soriano 9gms, 5.8ip/gm, 3.91era, 3.76fip, 3.2war32
Yesavage 8gms, 4.9ip/gm, 4.19era, 4.12fip, 2.0war32
Bieber 8gms, 5.3ip/gm, 4.21era, 4.14fip, 2.0war32
Scherzer 9gms, 3.4ip/gm, 4.65era, 4.69fip, 1.1war32
Arrighetti 2gms, 6.5ip/gm, 4.68era, 4.72fip, 1.6war32


Varland 20gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.16era, 3.18fip, 1.3war65
Miles 20gms, 1.2ip/gm, 3.52era, 3.53fip, 1.0war65
Rogers 22gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.75era, 3.82fip, 0.6war65
Fluharty 18gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.93era, 3.95fip, 0.4war65
Fisher 18gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.00era, 4.08fip, 0.0war65
Little 16gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.79era, 3.97fip, 0.0war65
Dallas 16gms, 1.2ip/gm, 4.15era, 4.20fip, 0.0war65
Taillon 17gms, 1.9ip/gm, 4.82era, 4.78fip, 0.2war65

Tiedemann 4gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.62era, 3.78fip, 0.0war65
Garcia 6gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.73era, 3.76fip, 0.0war65
Mantiply 8gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.92era, 3.75fip, 0.0war65
Stephen 4gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.02era, 4.07fip, 0.0war65

And then a bunch of others projected for too many innings (i hope):

Brock 6gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.21era, 4.27fip, 0.0war65
Lee 11gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.33era, 4.36fip, 0.0war65
Rodriguez 10gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.33era, 4.44fip, 0.0war65
Estrada 15gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.60era, 4.52fip, 0.0war65
VanEyk 15gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.62era, 4.61fip, 0.0war65
Corbin 5gms, 1.4ip/gm, 4.84era, 4.46fip, 0.0war65
 
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