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OT: World Politics

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Once this whole Ukraine thing is dealt with, it might be time to start rethinking and updating some of these international alliance structures. In the EU, Orban is able to obstruct basically anything he wants with little to no reprecussions other than slaps on the wrist and delayed funding and in NATO, a 3rd tier military in a dictatorship gets to tell an extremely strategically important NATO ally that it can't join.

The point of the EU was never to allow quasi democratic strongmen to hold the rest of the block hostage on security issues and the point of NATO was to put the democratic west under the US security umbrella, not to allow a regional power pivot to piss on the strategic good of the alliance to satisfy it's domestic politics.
 

LeafGm

Well-known member
Once this whole Ukraine thing is dealt with, it might be time to start rethinking and updating some of these international alliance structures. In the EU, Orban is able to obstruct basically anything he wants with little to no reprecussions other than slaps on the wrist and delayed funding and in NATO, a 3rd tier military in a dictatorship gets to tell an extremely strategically important NATO ally that it can't join.

The point of the EU was never to allow quasi democratic strongmen to hold the rest of the block hostage on security issues and the point of NATO was to put the democratic west under the US security umbrella, not to allow a regional power pivot to piss on the strategic good of the alliance to satisfy it's domestic politics.


The Simpsons actually charted the way through this problem already:


 

manny

Well-known member
Years ago I was at a conference where some elderly, very frustrated academic said somewhat tongue-in-cheek that all the post-WWII international institutions should be dissolved and replaced with a League of Sensible Nations.

Globalist fuck and all, yeah. Everyone chuckled knowingly.

He was on to something.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
What makes a sensible nation though? Turkey was pretty sensible pre Erdogan. Iran would have been considered "sensible" under the Shah by US definitions.
 

manny

Well-known member
I think you need a “fuck off” clause in the agreement, where like if 2/3 or 3/4 of member states think you are no longer sensible, you’re out. In theory it is an incentive to remain sensible.

Many of these institutions are based on consensus so anyone can block anything from happening, ever. It was a beautiful dream, that we might just all agree, at least on the big picture issues! But that dream is dead.
 

LeafGm

Well-known member
But then there’s Russia, which bombed Grozny into the Stone Age and killed 10s of thousands of co-religionists in the 2nd Chechen War.

Of course, none of that piqued Erdogan’s fragile strongman ego.


Are there any current non-Muslim world leaders who can rival Putin for the sheer amount of Islamic blood they have on their hands?

Xi would be the only one, I’d think.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
They've got some time. Mud season doesn't really clear up until May in eastern Ukraine.

It's too late to alter the course of the winter campaign, so all that really matters is June-September for an armor push..
 
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