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OT: World Politics

LeafGm said:
If the last 16 months have taught us anything when it comes to Putin and Russia—it’s that complete confusion and bumblefuckery is always a much likelier explanation than an intricate, evil genius master plan worthy of a spy thriller novel.

Also don’t see why Lukashenko would go along with this plan. Plausible deniability or no, if nukes launch from Belarus and land on Ukraine, he’s going to get royally fucked up the ass by NATO.
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You can make that case against Putin, who's a complete dolt, but Prigozhin has been fairly efficient with his mercenary group, considerably more efficient than Russia's official army. So why would he risk this move, not having lined up the right officials on his side to mutiny upon his advances? The entire ordeal lasting less than 6 hours is also strange. This is why I'm not going to rule out that something else could be going on.

I'm also not discounting that this was just a blunder on his part.
 
AP79 said:
You can make that case against Putin, who's a complete dolt, but Prigozhin has been fairly efficient with his mercenary group, considerably more efficient than Russia's official army. So why would he risk this move, not having lined up the right officials on his side to mutiny upon his advances? The entire ordeal lasting less than 6 hours is also strange. This is why I'm not going to rule out that something else could be going on.

I'm also not discounting that this was just a blunder on his part.
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Has Prigozhin really demonstrated some tactical brilliance during the war?

This is the same guy that took the better part of a year and sacrificed scores of troops in full frontal Soviet-style meat wave attacks to capture Bakhmut.

Are there some other brilliant campaigns Wagner’s taken part in during the war that I’m unaware of?
 
LeafGm said:
Has Prigozhin really demonstrated some tactical brilliance during the war?

This is the same guy that took the better part of a year and sacrificed scores of troops in full frontal Soviet-style meat wave attacks to capture Bakhmut.

Are there some other brilliant campaigns Wagner’s taken part in during the war that I’m unaware of?
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So you're saying the Russian military has been more proficient than the Wagner Group? That's contrary to every media report I have read on this subject.
 
AP79 said:
So you're saying the Russian military has been more proficient than the Wagner Group? That's contrary to every media report I have read on this subject.
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Nope. I’m just saying that “more proficient than the Russian military” is an extremely low bar to jump over.

And it’s low enough that my inclination would be to not assume this is all part of some well thought-out super secret plan.
 
AP79 said:
You can make that case against Putin, who's a complete dolt, but Prigozhin has been fairly efficient with his mercenary group, considerably more efficient than Russia's official army. So why would he risk this move, not having lined up the right officials on his side to mutiny upon his advances? The entire ordeal lasting less than 6 hours is also strange. This is why I'm not going to rule out that something else could be going on.

I'm also not discounting that this was just a blunder on his part.
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It’s also possible it was being coordinated with someone close to Putin, and then that person told Prigozhin to stand down.

Lots more to the story, IMO.

Anyway, one thing it did undeniably was expose Putin’s weakness. To everyone. If he replaces Shoigu now (maybe even a condition of Prigozhin standing down?) he’ll look even weaker.
 
So Ukraine had to be invaded and thousands murdered because they were getting too cozy with the EU.

But the people who attempted a coup, killed Russian soldiers, and humiliated Putin should either switch sides or they’re free to go live in another country.

How does anyone spin this?

Putin is near the end. Let’s hope the new regime is not worse than this one.
 
manny said:
So Ukraine had to be invaded and thousands murdered because they were getting too cozy with the EU.

But the people who attempted a coup, killed Russian soldiers, and humiliated Putin should either switch sides or they’re free to go live in another country.

How does anyone spin this?

Putin is near the end. Let’s hope the new regime is not worse than this one.
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i'm sure the new regime will be technically "worse", but I highly doubt they'll be "stronger", or anywhere near as strong, really.
 
manny said:
So Ukraine had to be invaded and thousands murdered because they were getting too cozy with the EU.

But the people who attempted a coup, killed Russian soldiers, and humiliated Putin should either switch sides or they’re free to go live in another country.

How does anyone spin this?

Putin is near the end. Let’s hope the new regime is not worse than this one.
Click to expand...


At this point, I couldn’t give two shits how much worse any theoretical new Russian regime is in terms of brutal totalitarianism—as long as they keep it confined within their own borders and directed at their own citizens.

At that point the Russian people can either meekly live with it or do something about it. But it’s about time the citizens of other countries—particularly Ukraine—stop having to pay that butcher’s bill.
 
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