OT: World Politics
- Thread starter zeke
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zeke
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zeke
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Wayward DP
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can this admin do anything competently?
Leafyblue
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They are excellent at being
Wayward DP
Well-known member
for this who think the JCPOA was the solution, I recommend reading this. you may not agree, but you should be aware of the opposing arguments, and various perspectives.
View: https://x.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1937146063749542338
"For the last 40 years, the Iranian regime has consistently expressed, in rhetoric and policy, its intention to destroy the Jewish state. Yet the international community took those threats and actions in stride. There has been little or no outrage from governments, human rights organizations, or religious leaders at the genocidal threat aimed at Israel. Most of all, the UN accepted as a given the violation of its own charter, which states that a member state may not threaten the existence of another. The moral burden for the current crisis is not on Israel but the world.
There will almost certainly be painful repercussions to America’s attack. We shouldn’t minimize the Iranian potential for retribution, especially through global terrorism. Israelis are paying a painful price for this war. And Jews around the world are now even more vulnerable. Israel – and “the Jews” – will be widely blamed, by both right and left, for “dragging America into war.”
But there are moments when leaders need to decisively deal with an existential threat and not allow fear of the consequences to paralyze them. We will deal with the consequences as they unfold.
For those spreading dire predictions of a “forever war,” the precedent of America’s failed wars in the Middle East is sobering. But it is not the knock-out argument its proponents believe it to be. Had Israel listened to the warnings of some of its well-intentioned friends not to go to war on October 8, we would still be surrounded on most of our borders by terror entities committed to our destruction. Israel’s stunning achievement in breaking that vise refutes the pessimists. "
...
"Israel’s strike on Iran is the culmination of the war that began on October 7. Hamas’s massacre of Israelis was not an expression of an oppressed people revolting against occupation, as much of the world believes; it was the latest phase of the radical Islamist war against Israel’s existence. What began on October 7 was the Israeli-Iranian war. For the last 18 months, we have been fighting Iran’s proxies. Now, finally and inevitably, we have taken the war to its source.
In the past, in warning against a nuclear Iran, Israel and its supporters invoked the Holocaust: A Holocaust-denying regime obsessed with the destruction of Israel could not be permitted to go nuclear. Since October 7, though, our frame of reference has shifted to the Middle East, where it always belonged. What we learned that day was never to minimize the intentions of genocidally-minded enemies. When they promise to slaughter you, don’t dismiss them."
...
"For the Jewish people, this is a time for courage and resolve. Whatever one’s opinion on the Gaza war, there should be no disagreement among us about the imperative of preventing the nuclear capability of a regime obsessed with the destruction of Israel. We know that an obsession with the Jews usually ends in mass murder. That possibility has now been thwarted.
In 2007, Michael Oren and I wrote an essay in The New Republic warning against a nuclear Iran. We ended with these words: “A Jewish state that allows itself to be threatened with nuclear weapons – by a country that denies the genocide against Europe’s six million Jews while threatening Israel’s six million Jews – will forfeit its right to speak in the name of Jewish history.”
View: https://x.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1937146063749542338
"For the last 40 years, the Iranian regime has consistently expressed, in rhetoric and policy, its intention to destroy the Jewish state. Yet the international community took those threats and actions in stride. There has been little or no outrage from governments, human rights organizations, or religious leaders at the genocidal threat aimed at Israel. Most of all, the UN accepted as a given the violation of its own charter, which states that a member state may not threaten the existence of another. The moral burden for the current crisis is not on Israel but the world.
There will almost certainly be painful repercussions to America’s attack. We shouldn’t minimize the Iranian potential for retribution, especially through global terrorism. Israelis are paying a painful price for this war. And Jews around the world are now even more vulnerable. Israel – and “the Jews” – will be widely blamed, by both right and left, for “dragging America into war.”
But there are moments when leaders need to decisively deal with an existential threat and not allow fear of the consequences to paralyze them. We will deal with the consequences as they unfold.
For those spreading dire predictions of a “forever war,” the precedent of America’s failed wars in the Middle East is sobering. But it is not the knock-out argument its proponents believe it to be. Had Israel listened to the warnings of some of its well-intentioned friends not to go to war on October 8, we would still be surrounded on most of our borders by terror entities committed to our destruction. Israel’s stunning achievement in breaking that vise refutes the pessimists. "
...
"Israel’s strike on Iran is the culmination of the war that began on October 7. Hamas’s massacre of Israelis was not an expression of an oppressed people revolting against occupation, as much of the world believes; it was the latest phase of the radical Islamist war against Israel’s existence. What began on October 7 was the Israeli-Iranian war. For the last 18 months, we have been fighting Iran’s proxies. Now, finally and inevitably, we have taken the war to its source.
In the past, in warning against a nuclear Iran, Israel and its supporters invoked the Holocaust: A Holocaust-denying regime obsessed with the destruction of Israel could not be permitted to go nuclear. Since October 7, though, our frame of reference has shifted to the Middle East, where it always belonged. What we learned that day was never to minimize the intentions of genocidally-minded enemies. When they promise to slaughter you, don’t dismiss them."
...
"For the Jewish people, this is a time for courage and resolve. Whatever one’s opinion on the Gaza war, there should be no disagreement among us about the imperative of preventing the nuclear capability of a regime obsessed with the destruction of Israel. We know that an obsession with the Jews usually ends in mass murder. That possibility has now been thwarted.
In 2007, Michael Oren and I wrote an essay in The New Republic warning against a nuclear Iran. We ended with these words: “A Jewish state that allows itself to be threatened with nuclear weapons – by a country that denies the genocide against Europe’s six million Jews while threatening Israel’s six million Jews – will forfeit its right to speak in the name of Jewish history.”
Wayward DP
Well-known member
I don't think anyone can currently make that conclusion based on the available information...
Wayward DP
Well-known member
but in any event the salient point is that JCPOA did not (and would not) end Iran's nuclear program - it only delayed its breakout time.
zeke
Well-known member
zeke
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hockeylover
Well-known member
The agreement was that they stay at 3.67% for 15 years and on May 1, 2018, Israel said they weren’t complying and the IAEA said they were complying and on May 8th the Trump admin withdrew, yeah?
And the IAEA said they didn’t beach 3.67% until July 2019.
And the IAEA said they didn’t beach 3.67% until July 2019.
zeke
Well-known member
zeke
Well-known member
Wayward DP
Well-known member
yah no one knows what was damaged yet... or at least there aren't any credible reports about the extent of the damage, yet.
nor do we know what the breakout time woulda been with years of JCPOA either...
it's all pretty speculative
what is not speculative on the other hand is Iran being an existential threat to Jews and Israel...
Wayward DP
Well-known member
they apparently just bombed the roads near it to make it harder for people on the ground to access it.
again, I'm not making any conclusions. it's too premature for that in my view.