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OT: World Politics

Wayward DP said:
Respectfully, I don’t think you understand the extent to which Hamas exercises complete and total control over Gaza, including any ‘media’ within. But the original point stands regardless.
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Ever seen any data that compares Ochoa death tolls after the fact, to Palestinian/Hamas reports in real time?

I know they try to double source check everything, so I’m curious what kind of a light it might shine on these “officially” reported numbers. Would be nice to have some shorthand formula to know it’s usually 75% accurate or whatever.



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Re: News sites mentioning that it needs sourcing could just as easily be because they got burned a few times during the early days of the Russia/Ukraine conflict as anything else…..as opposed to having a anti-Semitic bias.




www.reuters.com

Exclusive: Facebook removes more Russia posts claiming children's hospital bombing a hoax

Facebook on Wednesday removed official Russian posts that falsely claimed reports of Russia bombing a children's hospital in Ukraine were a hoax, a company spokesperson said, even as similar messages appeared on other social media platforms.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

en.m.wikipedia.org

Disinformation in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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www.pbs.org

FRONTLINE | Netanyahu at War | Season 2016 | Episode 1

FRONTLINE traces Benjamin Netanyahu's rise to power and his relationship with the U.S.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org

Watched this last night and it’s a solid recap of his rise, etc…but it has some great insights from former aids of his, throughout various big moments, and it’s interesting to get the behind the scenes stories of it all. Particularly once Obama’s in office as you have his aids recounting what he’s thinking, makes for a great view into how both sides misunderstand each other, and how every lever you pull, can have an unintended consequences with other powers, etc….
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I often question if he knows where he is, or if he'll announce to a room full of press again that he wants to go beddy bye, but it seemed like he saw the pictures pretty recently and while in a somewhat lucid state.

I know, hardly the kind of solid evidence a rational skeptic like WeHave requires, but citing POTUS is pretty decent.
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I will simply refer you to axlsalinger's post:

"...maybe at a time when Twitter is filled with fake insiders posting lies, some people wondered if the most horrific and monstrous story of the entire thing could be false?

And saying "but everybody believes hamas!" is bogus false equivalency, people believe there are Palestinian casualties because Palestinians, politicians and media members have been saying it, not because of fucking Hamas."
 


7:38: Hitchens: I believe I understand the question….there’s various tones of voice that question can be asked though, including tones I don’t like that suggest the covert Jewish hand that directs US policy, that’s not true….and very often clusters with other forms of unpleasantness.

Preston did touch on this already, and hearing Hitchens say it, it struck me how easily someone can say very similar things but with an added phrase here or there, a selection of different words to say the same thing, or as in the case above a different tone of voice….one gives up the game as to their true underlying feelings, that they’re too shy to voice publicly.

I think KiwiCanuck has been a pretty obvious example of that in this thread, and whether you care to believe it’s the case or not, so has some of your replies in this thread….

if you think you can say things like this..
Just remember that the IDF and the pro-Israel media do their best to keep the bad things they do off of social media and the 6 o'clock news. We've seen precious little of the things that have been done to Palestinian civilians for years under Israeli rule. There's nothing that happened at that music festival that hasn't happened before to Palestinians. We react viscerally to the things we actually get to see.
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I learned my history in public school, not in a yeshiva or a madrasah, so my education on the subject matter was not prejudiced by race or religion.
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Just because the curriculum didn't suck Israel's dick doesn't mean it was anti-Semitic. That shit always gets tossed around whenever someone gets butthurt
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But let's stop pretending that Israel's skirts are clean here. They aren't hated by their neighbors for no good reason.
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….and all that kind of language implies, I don’t have much sympathy for someone then expecting to be given the benefit of the doubt elsewhere in the thread, and have all their arguments be taken in good faith.

And that’s coming from someone who has made plenty of the same points, and is prone to getting loose with their language….I also don’t personally believe you’re anti-Semitic…but I think you talk with a tone at times of someone who would be…making it perfectly understandable why folks would call you out on it…..and which point you double down, doing nothing to assuage those beliefs.


/2 cents
 
Montana said:


7:38: Hitchens: I believe I understand the question….there’s various tones of voice that question can be asked though, including tones I don’t like that suggest the covert Jewish hand that directs US policy, that’s not true….and very often clusters with other forms of unpleasantness.

Preston did touch on this already, and hearing Hitchens say it, it struck me how easily someone can say very similar things but with an added phrase here or there, a selection of different words to say the same thing, or as in the case above a different tone of voice….one gives up the game as to their true underlying feelings, that they’re too shy to voice publicly.

I think KiwiCanuck has been a pretty obvious example of that in this thread, and whether you care to believe it’s the case or not, so has some of your replies in this thread….

if you think you can say things like this..






….and all that kind of language implies, I don’t have much sympathy for someone then expecting to be given the benefit of the doubt elsewhere in the thread, and have all their arguments be taken in good faith.

And that’s coming from someone who has made plenty of the same points, and is prone to getting loose with their language….I also don’t personally believe you’re anti-Semitic…but I think you talk with a tone at times of someone who would be…making it perfectly understandable why folks would call you out on it…..and which point you double down, doing nothing to assuage those beliefs.


/2 cents
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He tries to pass himself off as an equal opportunity hater, but that’s just it - he hates both sides and one of those sides is Israel. I don’t think he even realizes it, but his language gives him away.
 
I'd have more empathy for Israel if they hadn't become more fascist and imperious since Netanyahu took power. You can't let a scumbag like that run your country for a decade and expect to hold the moral high ground indefinitely.

That said, if I had to choose sides in this conflict it's Israel every day of the week and twice on Sunday (having better comedians and better deli food in addition to western style democracy and social attitudes is a bonus, too) I just wish I didn't feel like I need to shower after siding with them. I didn't used to, but Bibi is what he is and I don't truck with fascists, be they Canadian like Poilievre, American like Trump, or Israeli like Netanyahu.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
He tries to pass himself off as an equal opportunity hater, but that’s just it - he hates both sides and one of those sides is Israel. I don’t think he even realizes it, but his language gives him away.
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he does hate both sides, but I think there’s a clear delineation (particularly as he got older) about where that hate was directed….at Hamas & any terrorist zealotry out of Palestine, and at the hard-right religious zealots who aggressively push for settlements, and do everything possible to kneecap any sort of peace talks. Which is to be expected as it goes hand in hand with his atheism.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
I'd have more empathy for Israel if they hadn't become more fascist and imperious since Netanyahu took power. You can't let a scumbag like that run your country for a decade and expect to hold the moral high ground indefinitely.
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Actions from either side shouldnt impact your empathy for the civilian populace.

terrorists aren’t checking voter registration cards before attacking, and no Bush voters deserved any less empathy on 9/11. Regardless of how long he was in power.

WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
I didn't used to, but Bibi is what he is and I don't truck with fascists, be they Canadian like Poilievre, American like Trump, or Israeli like Netanyahu.
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just be sure to remain publicly vocal about your lack of empathy for any Canadians that die, in the days following any terrorist attacks that occur under Poilievre.
 
I wonder how you would parent your children if subjected to the living conditions of Gaza or were subjected to continued Israeli expansionism of your home in areas like the West Bank.

Very easy to judge other people in different parts of the world when you don't live in their skin.
 
leaffan2005 said:
I wonder how you would parent your children if subjected to the living conditions of Gaza or were subjected to continued Israeli expansionism of your home in areas like the West Bank.

Very easy to judge other people in different parts of the world when you don't live in their skin.
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Well, the Israelis don’t parent their children the same way even though the parents of those kids have been busy blowing up their clubs and restaurants, committing random acts of violence, and preaching the destruction of their state and religion for generations.
 
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