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OT: World Politics

LeafOfFaith said:
Feel free to believe what you want. I don't believe they were ever operating in good faith.
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It's cool. I'll believe in verifiable facts and not vibes. If they were abiding by the deal, I couldn't care less whether it was in good faith or not.

There is no evidence that they were operating outside the deal, and given how much Israeli intelligence knows about what is going on in that country, if they couldn't find evidence of anything, it didn't exist.
 
MindzEye said:
It's cool. I'll believe in verifiable facts and not vibes. If they were abiding by the deal, I couldn't care less whether it was in good faith or not.
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I'm not saying I think they were complying in bad faith. I'm saying they were doubtless skirting compliance.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I'm saying they were doubtless skirting compliance.
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No one has any evidence of this, despite everyone knowing a fuckton about the Iranian nuclear program. This is a convenient fantasy that you'll cling to so you have justification to cheer for more missiles.
 
but what does compliance matter?

israel is very sure about the intel they have right now, even without any compliance. so even without compliance back then, they still had the intel - and the intel then said they weren't close to having nukes yet.
 
zeke said:
so then why aren't they nuclear capable now?


and how do we know they are close to that now?
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How do we know they haven't been working on it the whole time uninterrupted and are just now getting to the finish line?

They certainly kept up the rhetoric the whole time that they were going to annihilate the west. Even recently during the supposed talks, they were negotiating from one side of their mouths while promising death from the other side. It's lunacy to deal with them like they can be trusted.
 
MindzEye said:
No one has any evidence of this, despite everyone knowing a fuckton about the Iranian nuclear program. This is a convenient fantasy that you'll cling to so you have justification to cheer for more missiles.
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When the regime is literally and consistently promising to wipe the west off the map, and the only way they could do that is with nuclear weapons, then it's a safe bet to believe they were still working on their program while laughing at everyone who thought they weren't.
 
zeke said:
the same way we know they are at the "finish line" now.
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Again, you can believe that their nonstop public statements are just some throwaway rhetoric to get the masses riled up or to create some shared hatred that they could rally around to keep themselves in place. I don't think it's reasonable to believe that. They overtly promise destruction nonstop, so putting a pause on the program while continuing the rhetoric isn't an inconsistency that I'm going to brush aside by giving them the benefit of the doubt.
 
You know what's better than betting? Having an entire organization full of experts and giving them the authority and capability to make sure that those types of things aren't going on.

Hiding a clandestine weapons program when the starting point is everyone knowing everything about your nuclear program is kind of fucking hard bordering on straight up impossible.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Again, you can believe that their nonstop public statements are just some throwaway rhetoric to get the masses riled up or to create some shared hatred that they could rally around to keep themselves in place. I don't think it's reasonable to believe that. They overtly promise destruction nonstop, so putting a pause on the program while continuing the rhetoric isn't an inconsistency that I'm going to resolve by giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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I'm saying we have the right intel now just like we had the right intel then.

We know how close they are and we know how close they were then, and they're much much much closer now.
 
MindzEye said:
You know what's better than betting? Having an entire organization full of experts and giving them the authority and capability to make sure that those types of things aren't going on.

Hiding a clandestine weapons program when the starting point is everyone knowing everything about your nuclear program is kind of fucking hard bordering on straight up impossible.
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Iran's a country, not some office building. You think they can't conceal development?
 
zeke said:
I'm saying we have the right intel now just like we had the right intel then.

We know how close they are and we know how close they were then, and they're much much much closer now.
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Sure, because they've been operating unchecked. Of course it would've been harder and would've taken longer if the deal still imposed burdens on them, but I won't believe they just put a stop on everything when they entered that deal.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
You think they can't conceal development?
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They weren't able to prior to the deal or prior to the sanctions that culminated with the deal. Why do you think the Mossad knew exactly what to infect in the stuxnet attack?

So no, I don't think they can conceal development in a country with one nuclear reactor.
 
so for all the bluster, doesn't look like anything significant happened last night?

although Iran's ability to land hits seems to be waning. and Israel already has air superiority, all of what, four days in? think the next shoe drops soon.
 
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