• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

MindzEye said:
Fwiw....this is only "cheating" if you accept the premise that players should be allowed to say "I'm fine" right up until they're wearing a helmet and drinking out of a straw for the rest of their lives.

The issue here imo is that he was cleared in the playoffs, not that he's been deemed fucked the following July.
Click to expand...


Let’s not pretend he’s been put on LTIR because the Leafs are now actually concerned about his health. If they thought he was more useful to them on the ice than on LTIR, he’d still be on the active roster.

And I still disagree with the premise that the Leafs can or would be able to do this against Murray’s will. My guess is that for one reason or another, they’ve gotten Murray to buy in on this.

Whether it’s because he doesn’t want to lose $2.6M in a buyout or isn’t interested in playing on whatever bottom feeder is willing to take on his salary. Or maybe he sees the writing on the wall and is fine riding off into the sunset with his two Cups and $20-30M in career earnings.
 
LeafGm said:
Let’s not pretend he’s been put on LTIR because the Leafs are now actually concerned about his health. If they thought he was more useful to them on the ice than on LTIR, he’d still be on the active roster.

And I still disagree with the premise that the Leafs can or would be able to do this against Murray’s will. My guess is that for one reason or another, they’ve gotten Murray to buy in on this.

Whether it’s because he doesn’t want to lose $2.6M in a buyout or isn’t interested in playing on whatever bottom feeder is willing to take on his salary. Or maybe he sees the writing on the wall and is fine riding off into the sunset with his two Cups and $20-30M in career earnings.
Click to expand...

Who's pretending that the Leafs care? That was never part of my argument. My argument was and is that conkies are different and after a handful anyone can be deemed unfit to play by a teams medical staff if the team really wants to make an issue of it.

It's significantly easier if the player goes along with it (it requires a player objection for the league to investigate without obvious cause....*cough* Hossa *cough*) but not necessary. Every person is different, but after 3-4 conkies, there's enough damage there to create significant risk of early onset dimentia, increased risk of emotional disorders, increased risk of addiction disorders, etc. After 6-8 though? Toast.

In 40-50 years, our current practice of head injury acceptance is going to appear barbaric.
 
LeafGm said:
And I still disagree with the premise that the Leafs can or would be able to do this against Murray’s will. My guess is that for one reason or another, they’ve gotten Murray to buy in on this.
Click to expand...
i agree, if he felt totally fine for months i'm still pretty sure they couldn't force him onto LTIR, at the very least he could get some doctors and try to fight it. gotta be either he wants the full amount or is still experiencing concussion symptoms.
 
ME right now

Uhru.gif


Enjoy it. You earned this one.
 
axlsalinger said:
i agree, if he felt totally fine for months
Click to expand...

Eh, I think part of the problem we're having here is that this is a misconception. There is no "totally fine" after a pile of repeated concussions, there is only "met the guidelines to return". This isn't really a controversial philosophical point either, if this was a goalie dealing with his 6-8th ligament strain/tear in his knee, no one would bat an eye at it forcing him to LTIR or even question how he could be deemed good to sit on the bench in May, but toast in July.

I posted the return to play guidelines a bunch of pages ago, they're hilarious. After diagnosis, you have to pass a baseline test (established during training camp physicals...cognitive, reaction time, memory tests, etc) and then follow the return to play guidelines, which for a goalie is taking light bumps from a coach in front of the net during drills at full speed without a return of symptoms.

This isn't just a NHL problem, it's a contact/combat sports problem. It's not the team or the athlete's fault, it's the nature of brain injuries. But the evidence is pretty lopsided at this point, and contact/combat sports simply aren't doing near enough to protect the athletes.
 
and for clarity....I'm not suggesting that the Leafs are doing this to protect Murray's health. If Murray was making the minimum, and he "met the guidelines" he would be at training camp.

That's the problem.
 
First time I saw Murray without his equipment on in 2016' playoffs I was pretty shocked how rail thin he was and wondered how he could ever stay healthy
 
MindzEye said:
Eh, I think part of the problem we're having here is that this is a misconception. There is no "totally fine" after a pile of repeated concussions, there is only "met the guidelines to return". This isn't really a controversial philosophical point either, if this was a goalie dealing with his 6-8th ligament strain/tear in his knee, no one would bat an eye at it forcing him to LTIR or even question how he could be deemed good to sit on the bench in May, but toast in July.

I posted the return to play guidelines a bunch of pages ago, they're hilarious. After diagnosis, you have to pass a baseline test (established during training camp physicals...cognitive, reaction time, memory tests, etc) and then follow the return to play guidelines, which for a goalie is taking light bumps from a coach in front of the net during drills at full speed without a return of symptoms.

This isn't just a NHL problem, it's a contact/combat sports problem. It's not the team or the athlete's fault, it's the nature of brain injuries. But the evidence is pretty lopsided at this point, and contact/combat sports simply aren't doing near enough to protect the athletes.
Click to expand...
agree with all this, it certainly is pretty nebulous at this point. however i still maintain that if he was "cleared to play" 3 months ago it's within the realm of possibility he's symptom-free by this point.

maybe no one's ever really "symptom free" after multiple concussions, but if he feels good, healthy and ready to play not sure this could be forced on him, he would have to agree to it. Probably still does have symptoms, though it could be he doesn't want to fight it or is happy to get the full salary, or maybe he found a horse's head in his bed, though that's less likely with Lou gone.
 
It’s at least 5 concussions in like… the last 5 or 6 years right?

Yeah I dunno. I think it’s entirely possible downplayed to get cleared for the playoffs. That’s… a lot.
 
LeafGm said:
Let’s not pretend he’s been put on LTIR because the Leafs are now actually concerned about his health. If they thought he was more useful to them on the ice than on LTIR, he’d still be on the active roster.

And I still disagree with the premise that the Leafs can or would be able to do this against Murray’s will. My guess is that for one reason or another, they’ve gotten Murray to buy in on this.

Whether it’s because he doesn’t want to lose $2.6M in a buyout or isn’t interested in playing on whatever bottom feeder is willing to take on his salary. Or maybe he sees the writing on the wall and is fine riding off into the sunset with his two Cups and $20-30M in career earnings.
Click to expand...

here's the thing - doctors of the team, player, and league all have to sign off on this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top