The Training Camp Thread
- Thread starter andyt
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I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I think he does. I like the skill and the aggressive mentality I've seen from Aho. It's exciting to see that kind of skill level after being starved of it for so long. But I think if you look closely and dispassionately at his play against real NHLers in preseason you can see that he needs to figure out the North American game for awhile. Now, you can do that with him playing NHL minutes and I feel confident that he would sort it out sooner or later. But theyve hyped this guy so much that fans are going to expect a lot right away and I just don't think the kid is prepared to deliver quite yet. I know pressure is different here than it is in for, example, Toronto, but let's not be sloppy with one of the best prospects we've had in the last decade. A month in the AHL isn't going to hurt anyone.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
A confident Aho with a month or so of AHL seasoning seems like a better idea than a struggling rookie trying to make a great first impression when this team desperately needs to get off to a great start in the first 15-20 games. The addition of Frk along with the need to keep PDG in the lineup for what he brings to the table should be enough to offset things with Aho right now.
Elsker
Well-known member
I wouldn't mind that patient approach to introducing the NA game to Aho at all.
Although no question, he's a fun player to watch. Just moves differently on the ice than most. The physical skills and, well, just call it hockey sense, are evident.
But, yes, let's do one right for a change. No need to rush him in a splash->swim manner, as we've done before. The opportunity to join the party will come when injuries strike, if not by merit alone.
Although no question, he's a fun player to watch. Just moves differently on the ice than most. The physical skills and, well, just call it hockey sense, are evident.
But, yes, let's do one right for a change. No need to rush him in a splash->swim manner, as we've done before. The opportunity to join the party will come when injuries strike, if not by merit alone.
JamesNorthern
Active member
I agree with the sentiments about Aho. In fact, an opportunity may have opened up that gives us even more playable depth at low cost. I would start Aho in the A and give him the time it takes to adjust. Let's not forget physically, even if he seems like he can take it... he's still young and not a guy like Gauthier. Skinner is a guy we rushed and almost (maybe verdict is still out..?) blew it in the process. His physical game was not ready for the NHL.
The opportunity is this: http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/10/10/13228048/red-wings-place-f-teemu-pulkkinen-on-waivers
I like this player, Pulkkinen. A right shot, and he is a Finn. I remember bringing him up last season. Now the Wings have strangely walked away from him too. I mean at 815K a year, I am sure if Frk can draw at least 3-4 suitors, Pulkinnen will have more. We'll see who claims him, if not already done. We may have other teams that will be more qualified to get him in the waiver positioning rules though. I would have put Pulkkinen higher than Frk on the Wings depth chart.. but whatever.
The opportunity is this: http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/10/10/13228048/red-wings-place-f-teemu-pulkkinen-on-waivers
I like this player, Pulkkinen. A right shot, and he is a Finn. I remember bringing him up last season. Now the Wings have strangely walked away from him too. I mean at 815K a year, I am sure if Frk can draw at least 3-4 suitors, Pulkinnen will have more. We'll see who claims him, if not already done. We may have other teams that will be more qualified to get him in the waiver positioning rules though. I would have put Pulkkinen higher than Frk on the Wings depth chart.. but whatever.
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It. Is. Alive!!!
Yes, Frk has to stay with the Canes. CM is the CBA expert, but I think if we try to send him down, he's exposed to waivers and the Red Wings can pick him up and immediately send him down.
To answer your other question, I don't know, I've never seen him play. He's a righty on a team short of right shot forwards. He took a huge leap forward last year but his first 2 years in Grand Rapids were meh (9 goals in 82 games). He did score well in the ECHL in 14-15 with 23 goals, 15 assists in 29 games.
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A ... yes, as answered by Andy
B ... I suspect that what those two really need is a guy like DiGuiseppe or McGinn to crash around on one wing and make some space for them and this kid doesn't seem that kind of guy. But who the heck knows.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
You have it right andyt. Any attempt by the Canes to send Frk to the AHL requires he clears full waivers again. If that happens the scenarios are:
1) Some other team (Wings are not eligible at this point) claims him off of waivers and is in the same boat as we are now. They need to keep him with their NHL club or its back to waivers again.
2) No team claims him above after the Canes waive him. The Wings could then claim him and immediately send him to the AHL if they want (this would be the equivalent of him having cleared waivers in the first place).
3) No one in scenario 1 claims him AND the Wings elect not to claim him. Then the Canes could send him to the AHL. That's EXTREMELY unlikely (#2 above would almost certainly happen in this case unless Frk suddenly forgets how to balance on ice skates).
This is the same scenario that sent Zack Boychuk to Pittsburgh then Nashville (scenario 1 above) then back to Charlotte (scenario 2 above).
1) Some other team (Wings are not eligible at this point) claims him off of waivers and is in the same boat as we are now. They need to keep him with their NHL club or its back to waivers again.
2) No team claims him above after the Canes waive him. The Wings could then claim him and immediately send him to the AHL if they want (this would be the equivalent of him having cleared waivers in the first place).
3) No one in scenario 1 claims him AND the Wings elect not to claim him. Then the Canes could send him to the AHL. That's EXTREMELY unlikely (#2 above would almost certainly happen in this case unless Frk suddenly forgets how to balance on ice skates).
This is the same scenario that sent Zack Boychuk to Pittsburgh then Nashville (scenario 1 above) then back to Charlotte (scenario 2 above).
cmaleski2
Well-known member
A few things will be decided today before 5PM:
* If we are going to waive McClement or Bickell just to put the option of sending them to the AHL, today is the day. I suspect the Canes will not make those moves.
* A decision needs to be made on Warren Foegele. If RF thinks he's earned it, he needs an entry level contract. Otherwise he needs to be sent back to the OHL or find an overseas contract somewhere. We have his rights still so we don't HAVE to sign him at this point.
It appears the plan is to start the season with a full roster of 14 forwards and 7 Dmen and our 2 goalies. Whether McKeown starts the season in the lineup and Jakub Nakladal is the #7 Dmen or the other way around remains to be seen. It will be very interesting to me to see which of our 2 forwards sit out the opener. I expect all of the following to happen today:
* Carrick, Fleury, Tolchinsky, Wallmark will be sent to the AHL
* Foegele will be returned to Kingston (how that plays out remains to be seen with Kingston already having 3 overage players)
* Ryan Murphy will be placed on IR
* PDG will make the team and along with Frk will initially be shuffled around the lineup with Bickell, McClement, Stalberg (probably to a lesser extent), Nestrasil and Aho being shuffled out. Any signs of Aho looking out of place will result in him going to the AHL for some seasoning.
Skinner, Rask, Stempniak, Nordstrom, Staal, Nestrasil, Teravainen, Lindholm, Aho, Bickell, McClement, Stalberg, PDG, Frk
Hainsey, Faulk, Hanifin, Pesce, Slavin, McKeown, Nakladal
Ward, Lack
IR - Murphy
* If we are going to waive McClement or Bickell just to put the option of sending them to the AHL, today is the day. I suspect the Canes will not make those moves.
* A decision needs to be made on Warren Foegele. If RF thinks he's earned it, he needs an entry level contract. Otherwise he needs to be sent back to the OHL or find an overseas contract somewhere. We have his rights still so we don't HAVE to sign him at this point.
It appears the plan is to start the season with a full roster of 14 forwards and 7 Dmen and our 2 goalies. Whether McKeown starts the season in the lineup and Jakub Nakladal is the #7 Dmen or the other way around remains to be seen. It will be very interesting to me to see which of our 2 forwards sit out the opener. I expect all of the following to happen today:
* Carrick, Fleury, Tolchinsky, Wallmark will be sent to the AHL
* Foegele will be returned to Kingston (how that plays out remains to be seen with Kingston already having 3 overage players)
* Ryan Murphy will be placed on IR
* PDG will make the team and along with Frk will initially be shuffled around the lineup with Bickell, McClement, Stalberg (probably to a lesser extent), Nestrasil and Aho being shuffled out. Any signs of Aho looking out of place will result in him going to the AHL for some seasoning.
Skinner, Rask, Stempniak, Nordstrom, Staal, Nestrasil, Teravainen, Lindholm, Aho, Bickell, McClement, Stalberg, PDG, Frk
Hainsey, Faulk, Hanifin, Pesce, Slavin, McKeown, Nakladal
Ward, Lack
IR - Murphy
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CanadaCanes
Well-known member
I would not rule out Bickell or McClement being waived today...I cannot see either one of those two being claimed by anyone, but waiving them allows Francis a little more flexibility with his roster moving forward in the event that either of those two were just getting in the way of an emerging young player like Frk that needs the ice time. I think both Bickell and McClement will stick for now, but waivers allows Francis to tinker a bit more up front moving forward. Frk has to play to see what you have with him, Aho needs to play as a healthy scratch too many nights does no good whatsoever and frankly PDG deserves the ice time over any of those three slow dinosaurs up front in McClement, Bickell and Stahlberg.
Nakladal is an older player that did play in the World Cup but you have to wonder how up to speed a guy like that is coming into a new system this late into camp. He needs some time to adjust, so it might be safer to put McKeown in there early.
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JamesNorthern
Active member
On Jakub Nakladal... listen, he may actually be the better of the two recent additions... although his sample is small, he is 28, fully developed physically (6'2 212lbs) and as the season ended became Calgary's go to guy, with his offensive abilities in the transition game being noticed and his good stick and defense work around the net. He has a hard shot, is a rightie. He then impressed at the world's. Calgary fans have reason to scratch their heads on this one and I am happy we got a guy who is an NHL late commer/bloomer that another team just ditched their plans on. Maybe I am wrong but I think we will be really happy with his play and integration into our system. There is something Harry'esk about his play. He plays more positionally for a defender, but his body(use of) is there too. Check out this youtube clip, around minute 13:45 for highlights of his play last season with the Flames and at the World's:
[video=youtube;tE4rgCSW9AM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE4rgCSW9AM[/video]
As for Frk, the knock on him seems to be consistently his wheels (slow, not the most leet on his skates... ) however, in the last couple of seasons he seems to have improved in other facets of his game, offensively. Listen, if guys like Ray Sheppard, Brian Bellows... for a couple of examples can make it... or Alex Tanguay another... none known for their skating... then you never know. Something good could develop and of course we benefit from getting another player bred into a winning system for the NHL (the wings). Will be interesting to see if he can do anything.
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brassbonanza
Canes Moderator
wow thanks for posting those highlights, He looks like an absolute beast! His NHL experience puts him ahead of McKeown, I would wager.
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Yeah. NHL teams end up cutting deals with OHL teams in those positions all the time, but it was vastly simpler when our owner had his own controllable situation. Of course the down side to that was fairly evident as well ... we got stocked with Plymouth's middling or worse prospects late in drafts simply because our scouts knew those guys so well.
Bottom line ... if they want Foegel in the OHL, there will be a way to make that happen, just probably not in Kingston. And at the end of the day Ronnie will probably end up owing some juniors GM a favor he'd rather not have to honor. A more cold blooded franchise would just pat the kid on the back and tell him good luck finding a gig in Europe. But that ain't Carolina's style.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
So Klas Dahlbeck claimed off waivers likely means that McKeown and Fleury and Carrick all are farmed out to Charlotte today. Nakladal and Dahlbeck to be the 6th and 7th guys on defense at least until Murphy is healthy enough to play.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
Klas Dahlbeck also adds another wrinkle to this. If we give him a one year extension at any point this year he already covers our DMan expansion draft requirement. There is your 'plan B' if Ryan Murphy can't get 35 games played this year due to injury, suckage, or being beaten out by other players. Yes I would say that puts a fork in McKeown starting the season with the Canes...you can add him to the 'sent to Charlotte' list.
That also creates another issue to be resolved. We have 5 NHL DMen with one way contracts now (Hainsey, Faulk, Murphy, Nakladal and Dahlbeck) and the 3 kids with entry level deals (Hanifin, Slavin, Pesce). When Murphy is ready to come back something has to give because we have 14 forwards at the moment. 8 DMen would be one too many.
If you are wondering what Klas Dahlbeck brings if he actually gets to play for us...his 178 hits (in 71 games) last season would have been first on the Canes. Jordan Staal paced the Canes with 165 hits in 82 games.
That also creates another issue to be resolved. We have 5 NHL DMen with one way contracts now (Hainsey, Faulk, Murphy, Nakladal and Dahlbeck) and the 3 kids with entry level deals (Hanifin, Slavin, Pesce). When Murphy is ready to come back something has to give because we have 14 forwards at the moment. 8 DMen would be one too many.
If you are wondering what Klas Dahlbeck brings if he actually gets to play for us...his 178 hits (in 71 games) last season would have been first on the Canes. Jordan Staal paced the Canes with 165 hits in 82 games.
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The roster is set:
Forwards: Staal, Nestrasil, Lindholm, McClement, Aho, Stempniak, Stalberg, Bickell, PDG, Nordstrom, Rask, Skinner, Teravainen, Frk
Dmen: Hanifin, Pesce, Faulk, McKeown, Hainsey, Slavin, Dahlbeck
Goalies: Ward, Lack
Fleury, Carrick and Wallmark were sent to Charlotte. Murphy was put on IR. Foegele was sent back to Kingston. Francis said in an interview with David Glenn that he was good enough to make the roster but playing in Charlotte would hurt him, if that makes any sense. Nakladal has immigration problems and will likely join the team in Vancouver. When that happens, McKeown ends up in Charlotte.
Forwards: Staal, Nestrasil, Lindholm, McClement, Aho, Stempniak, Stalberg, Bickell, PDG, Nordstrom, Rask, Skinner, Teravainen, Frk
Dmen: Hanifin, Pesce, Faulk, McKeown, Hainsey, Slavin, Dahlbeck
Goalies: Ward, Lack
Fleury, Carrick and Wallmark were sent to Charlotte. Murphy was put on IR. Foegele was sent back to Kingston. Francis said in an interview with David Glenn that he was good enough to make the roster but playing in Charlotte would hurt him, if that makes any sense. Nakladal has immigration problems and will likely join the team in Vancouver. When that happens, McKeown ends up in Charlotte.
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cmaleski2
Well-known member
That opens the door for McKeown to sneak 1 NHL game in before a 3rd right handed shot meets us in Vancouver and sends McKeown back to Charlotte.
Let me try to make some sense out of Foegele situation, here are Charlotte's forwards:
Wallmark, Tolchinsky, McGinn, Ryan, Bishop, Sutter, Karlsson, Woods, Poturalski, Brown, Zykov, Miller. Those are our players who have 2 way contracts. We also have Hagel and a few other minor league only guys there. Foegele at least to me could have made that roster, but he would have been hard pressed for playing time especially at center where he would have at best been our 4th or '5th' line center there behind Wallmark, Ryan, Bishop and Sutter. If his future is really as a center Foegele is going to be much better off playing another year as an overage OHL player rather than being forced to play wing to secure any chance of playing in the AHL.
Another way to look at this from Foegele's perspective, if he goes out and kills it in the OHL this season, his chances of getting a higher signing bonus/salary on his entry level deal will go up. Foegele would also gain more leverage by waiting until closer to June 1st, 2018, when the Canes rights to sign him expire.
Did Ronnie say Foegele elected not to sign yet or did the Canes decide not to sign him yet?
Let me try to make some sense out of Foegele situation, here are Charlotte's forwards:
Wallmark, Tolchinsky, McGinn, Ryan, Bishop, Sutter, Karlsson, Woods, Poturalski, Brown, Zykov, Miller. Those are our players who have 2 way contracts. We also have Hagel and a few other minor league only guys there. Foegele at least to me could have made that roster, but he would have been hard pressed for playing time especially at center where he would have at best been our 4th or '5th' line center there behind Wallmark, Ryan, Bishop and Sutter. If his future is really as a center Foegele is going to be much better off playing another year as an overage OHL player rather than being forced to play wing to secure any chance of playing in the AHL.
Another way to look at this from Foegele's perspective, if he goes out and kills it in the OHL this season, his chances of getting a higher signing bonus/salary on his entry level deal will go up. Foegele would also gain more leverage by waiting until closer to June 1st, 2018, when the Canes rights to sign him expire.
Did Ronnie say Foegele elected not to sign yet or did the Canes decide not to sign him yet?
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CanadaCanes
Well-known member
The fact that Foegele was good enough to make the team speaks volumes about his upside overall. Kingston will have a nice overage trade chip to dangle to an OHL contender like Windsor that could also benefit Foegele if he ends up playing for a Memorial Cup with a good team!
It would seem one of McGinn, Wallmark, Tolchinsky or Zykov would be on the first call up list from Charlotte due to injuries.