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Top 50 NHL Players

GGpX said:
Ekman-Larsson's 23 and Karlsson's 24. There's a 13 month age difference between the two.

And where did I say he's good defensively? He isn't, I've already admitted that. If he plays 25-27 minutes per night, he'll inevitably play in his own end, it can't be helped. But the majority of the time, he isn't in his own end.
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But what happens when he is in his own end? Teams had no issues matching up their best players when Karlsson was on the ice...it's nice that he moves the puck out and spends time offensively but when the puck was in his end for that limited amount of time it ended up in the net far too often.
 
GGpX said:
Ekman-Larsson's 23 and Karlsson's 24. There's a 13 month age difference between the two.

And where did I say he's good defensively? He isn't, I've already admitted that. If he plays 25-27 minutes per night, he'll inevitably play in his own end, it can't be helped. But the majority of the time, he isn't in his own end.
Click to expand...

But what happens when he is in his own end? Teams had no issues matching up their best players when Karlsson was on the ice...it's nice that he moves the puck out and spends time offensively but when the puck was in his end for that limited amount of time it ended up in the net far too often.
 
In the end it's a matter of preference...i Am really not a fan of Karlsson's game at all

Call me old school but my #1 dman has to be a studd defensively also...after all he is a defenseman first

Good debate:thumbup:
 
My list, without putting much thought into it.

(I excluded players on ELCs because they're not fair. Anybody would take MacKinnon at 900k for two more years ago over every player in the league, including Crosby)

Funny enough, a lot of the top value players were ones that had teams that didn't give out bridge deals. Huh... Wonder if I've beat that dead horse enough?

Based on the criteria applied in the first post, except I'm excluding ELCs. I excluded Ryan Johansen because I don't know what his contract is going to be. If he gets a bridge deal like Subban, I'd probably put him a lot lower than I would if he got a lot of money right away.

Top 50:
1. Sidney Crosby - Agreed
2. John Tavares - Agreed
3. Steven Stamkos - Agreed
4. Tyler Seguin - A PPG center who scores a lot on a $5.75M deal for FIVE more years? Sign me up.
5. Drew Doughty
6. Ryan McDonagh - Possibly the best bang for buck d-man in the league. ****ing bridge deals, man.
7. Evgeni Malkin
8. Anze Kopitar
9. Erik Karlsson
10. Taylor Hall
11. Johnathan Toews
12. Jamie Benn
13. Alex Pietrangelo
14. Phil Kessel
15. Oliver Ekman-Larsson ($5.5M for 5 more years is a steal)
16. Max Pacioretty ($4.5M for 5 more years? For a player that's shaping as someone that guarantees 25-30 goals minimum? Yes please.)
17. Ryan Getzlaf
18. Shea Weber
19. Victor Hedman
20. Corey Perry
21. Duncan Keith
22. Claude Giroux
23. Nicklas Backstrom
24. Carey Price
25. Ryan Suter
26. Tuuka Rask
27. P.K. Subban
28. Matt Duchene
29. Marc-Edouard Vlasic
30. Patrick Kane (In my world, he's justly paid. In the real world, relative to his comparables [ie. prior CBA contracts] he's overpaid. Not a constant 30 goal scorer, but sets up a tiny bit more than Phil Kessel while playing with much, much better teammates)
31. Patrick Sharp (I'm wondering if I shouldn't have him higher, but his age...)
32. Mark Giordano (How he wasn't included in the first list is baffling)
33. Patrice Bergeron
34. Alexander Ovechkin
35. Evander Kane
36. Logan Couture
37. Henrik Lundqvist
38. Joe Pavelski
39. Roman Josi
40. Gabriel Landeskog
41. Zdeno Chara
42. David Krejci
43. Jakub Voracek
44. Semyon Varlamov
45. James Van Riemsdyk (He should probably be higher)
46. Gustav Nyquist
47. Kyle Okposo
48. John Carlson
49. Cory Schneider
50. Keith Yandle

My unscientific opinion.
 
DonKay said:
There's probably about 10 -12 dmen in the league I'd take over Karlsson who is atrocious defensively so yes Karlsson at #8 is laughable.

Not saying he shouldn't be in the top 30 but 8 is way too high for a one dimensional dman
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Weird. There is not a single Dman I would take ahead of Hot Karl.

And he is not anymore atrocious defensively than Subban.


...he also does it for 30 mins a night.
 
DonKay said:
If his defensive liability was limited fine I would agree with you, but his defense is really not good and you're playing this guy 28 minutes a game.

Sorry but I'll take the steady and more physical dmen I listed who will get 20 points less a year

His own coach has made sarcastic remarks about his defense
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Have you heard what Subbans coach does to him?


28 mins is a game is a plus.



But I am assuming you are a Toews over Crosby guy?
 
worm said:
Weird. There is not a single Dman I would take ahead of Hot Karl.

And he is not anymore atrocious defensively than Subban.


...he also does it for 30 mins a night.
Click to expand...

I personally think Subban is better defensively and more physical.
 
worm said:
Have you heard what Subbans coach does to him?


28 mins is a game is a plus.



But I am assuming you are a Toews over Crosby guy?
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That's a tough one for me...I love Toews.

You ask me that question about 5 years ago it's not even close
 
worm said:
Weird. There is not a single Dman I would take ahead of Hot Karl.

And he is not anymore atrocious defensively than Subban.


...he also does it for 30 mins a night.
Click to expand...

I can't deny the guy is the best offensive dman in the league...but if you ask me I want my stud dman to be able to do more than just generate offense.

It's why I love the guys like Weber, Keith, Doughty and Sutter.....they do it all very very well

When it's going to come time to shutdown elite players you can turn to these guys with confidence
 
worm said:
Weird. There is not a single Dman I would take ahead of Hot Karl.

And he is not anymore atrocious defensively than Subban.


...he also does it for 30 mins a night.
Click to expand...

I agree that he's right at the top of the list for dmen... but I disagree with the bold part. He really is a bad defender. When he has the puck he's superb... but he is terrible at defending when the other team has the puck.

That said, he had the puck so much that it limits how often he's forced to defend and he's so good offensively that he can be a bad defender and still be right at the top of the list.

Then you take into account he $6.5m cap hit and he's one of the most valuable players in the league.
 
DonKay said:
I personally think Subban is better defensively and more physical.
Click to expand...

Agreed but Hot Karl is much better offensively. He was top 15 in 2 of his last 3 seasons (the third he was hurt) in scoring.

The problem I have with some of the others...like Keith is that he is rarely elite offensively....has 2 elite years surrounded by 40-45 ish point seasons.

Hot Karl just scored 20 goals.... only 5 of them at even strength.
 
Habspatrol said:
I agree that he's right at the top of the list for dmen... but I disagree with the bold part. He really is a bad defender. When he has the puck he's superb... but he is terrible at defending when the other team has the puck.

That said, he had the puck so much that it limits how often he's forced to defend and he's so good offensively that he can be a bad defender and still be right at the top of the list.

Then you take into account he $6.5m cap hit and he's one of the most valuable players in the league.
Click to expand...

Was using subban because everybody says he is bad defensively when he really isn't. His problem is making dumb plays when he has the puck.

Building on the top 50 players things.

What is the best 6 players to having on your team.

Stamkos - Crosby - Malkin
Keith - Karlsson
Rask
 
worm said:
Was using subban because everybody says he is bad defensively when he really isn't. His problem is making dumb plays when he has the puck.

Building on the top 50 players things.

What is the best 6 players to having on your team.

Stamkos - Crosby - Malkin
Keith - Karlsson
Rask
Click to expand...

It would be really interesting to see what the best team that you can build under the current cap is.
 
worm said:
Weird. There is not a single Dman I would take ahead of Hot Karl.

And he is not anymore atrocious defensively than Subban.


...he also does it for 30 mins a night.
Click to expand...
Subban is way better defensively and actually lays the hammer on people.
 
worm said:
Agreed but Hot Karl is much better offensively. He was top 15 in 2 of his last 3 seasons (the third he was hurt) in scoring.

The problem I have with some of the others...like Keith is that he is rarely elite offensively....has 2 elite years surrounded by 40-45 ish point seasons.

Hot Karl just scored 20 goals.... only 5 of them at even strength.
Click to expand...

It's personnel opinion in what each sees as important aspects in what you want in your #1 dman.

I like the complete dman that will be a tremendous defender and contribute offensively.

Always a big fan of the Prongers and Lidstroms and today the guys like Keith and Weber.

they will get 20 or so points less than Karl but those guys are miles ahead of Karl in other key aspects you want in a defender.
 
We wont agree.

But I see it similar to the Crosby vs Toews thing....and how many points do those other less measureable things like defense or leadership cost you?
 
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