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Out of Town Scoreboard

Keep on clinging Cork.

Maybe you should just watch your recorded games from last playoffs and be happy. Current events seem upsetting to you.
 
corksens said:
You make the claim that he is terrible defensively and gets burned one-on-one more often than other defensemen. That's a claim I'm asking you to back up.

But you can't - so you fall back on the "I watch the games" argument. Well, I watch the games as well and am not seeing the same thing (except for when he was severely injured). I can see how your opinion of the player is clouded by that brief time, but it isn't a holistic view of him as a player.
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If my view of Karlsson was so clouded why would I call him the best offensive dman in the league? Why would I say he's probably the best skater in the league? Hell I've even argued that he may even be the best defenseman (definitely top 5) in the league... but when it comes to the one knock I (and many others) have on him it's because my judgement is clouded? If that's what you think then there's not likely any way for me to change your opinion.

I'm not sure if there's a site that tracks poor defensive plays, or being burned one on one... or even if it would be a reliable stat. People have differing views of what is getting "burned."
 
Only saw him once this season, but he got danced 2-3 times on the rush and beat like a mule to the front of the net a few others.
 
I see it in most games I watch him play. Every dman gets beat from time to time, and most make a bad play that ends up in the back of their net sometimes... but Karlsson gets beat more often than most as far as I can tell. I do not have any sort of stats to back that up, nor do I know if such stats are even tracked or could be accurately tracked.

I'll clarify though. It's not like every time he gets beat he looks like a flopping walrus, or it results in a goal. He does not have strong positioning and he's not strong physically... and his reads are not strong. That said, the rest of his game is so awesome that he is still an elite dman.
 
You know how I know that Dion Phaneuf doesn't get beat like that often? I don't see him on the cover of the Toronto Sun very often.
 
Habspatrol said:
If my view of Karlsson was so clouded why would I call him the best offensive dman in the league? Why would I say he's probably the best skater in the league? Hell I've even argued that he may even be the best defenseman (definitely top 5) in the league... but when it comes to the one knock I (and many others) have on him it's because my judgement is clouded? If that's what you think then there's not likely any way for me to change your opinion.

I'm not sure if there's a site that tracks poor defensive plays, or being burned one on one... or even if it would be a reliable stat. People have differing views of what is getting "burned."
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Because it's indisputable. I can point to all sorts of statistical evidence that proves it.
 
MindzEye said:
Only saw him once this season, but he got danced 2-3 times on the rush and beat like a mule to the front of the net a few others.
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Sadly, at the beginning of the season he was still not near 100%. He was getting beaten on occasion - not because he sucks, but because his mobility was still coming back.
 
corksens said:
Sadly, at the beginning of the season he was still not near 100%. He was getting beaten on occasion - not because he sucks, but because his mobility was still coming back.
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I guess I'll have the opportunity to see the improvement on Saturday.
 
corksens said:
Because it's indisputable. I can point to all sorts of statistical evidence that proves it.
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If I wanted to dispute it I could say that 3 seasons ago Karlsson was definitely #1 but last year and this year it's not so clear cut.

Karlsson 45gp 41p (82gp 75p)
Subban 71gp 62p (82gp 72p)


However, I do believe Karlsson is better offensive at this time. It's not indisputable though. If fact, it's far more indisputable that Subban is significantly better defensively.
 
Habspatrol said:
If I wanted to dispute it I could say that 3 seasons ago Karlsson was definitely #1 but last year and this year it's not so clear cut.

Karlsson 45gp 41p (82gp 75p)
Subban 71gp 62p (82gp 72p)


However, I do believe Karlsson is better offensive at this time. It's not indisputable though. If fact, it's far more indisputable that Subban is significantly better defensively.
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Sure, if you wanted to make a very weak argument using a half season, and just over a quarter of this season, you could.

But if you took the past three seasons (including this one).

Karlsson = .25gpg / .92ppg
Subban = .14gpg / .65ppg

Offensively, Karlsson still has a distinct edge on being the best offensive defenseman in the game.
 
the funny thing, of course, is that Subban has never even been his team's #1 defenseman.
 
corksens said:
Sure, if you wanted to make a very weak argument using a half season, and just over a quarter of this season, you could.

But if you took the past three seasons (including this one).

Karlsson = .25gpg / .92ppg
Subban = .14gpg / .65ppg

Offensively, Karlsson still has a distinct edge on being the best offensive defenseman in the game.
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3 years ago Subban wasn't nearly as good as he is now.
 
I think he's better than he's ever been. One of those guys who's become better with age. He's become an absolute rock defensively and he's become an surgeon on the PP.
 
Markov's career trajectory really reminds me a lot of Zubov's.

He's gone being primarily an offensive specialist with some notable defensive shortcomings to an all-around force who can log a ton of minutes in any situation. He's started to take a more laid back approach offensively and covers up his mistakes a lot better than he previously did, and they are few and far between to begin with. Add in his continued offensive dominance and you have a legit number one option.
 
Habspatrol said:
3 years ago Subban wasn't nearly as good as he is now.
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The numbers I am referencing aren't three years old.

They span back 3 seasons - but we're only in December of this year. Add to that a half season and one player having a significant injury, comparing the past 45 games might be a tad on the weak side.
 
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