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The ****ing Pre-Season/Training Camp Thread (2019/20)

Babs is in tough right now. Especially since so many of these guys can be lost on waivers.

Agostino, Shore, Petan look every bit as deserving as Spezza, Gauthier, Tima, and all of them are waiver risks.

Marincin, Gravel, Schmaltz have also all shown something. All more than his pet Hodor for sure. Hell Holl was way better than Hodor too tonight.

Hutch with a big response tonight too.
 
zeke said:
He's younger than you think, though. Only 27. Contract ends at age 33.

True that he's slow now and only getting slower, but looking at this flyers team now he's a huge upgrade imo.

I also really like niskanen too, though he did fall off bigtime last year.
Click to expand...

I think they'll be fine this year, upgraded quite a bit probably a bottom tier playoff team. But that Hayes contract is going to be gross in like 3 years. that's a lot of money on a 2C who probably finishes the contract as a 4C.
 
zeke said:
Babs is in tough right now. Especially since so many of these guys can be lost on waivers.

Agostino, Shore, Petan look every bit as deserving as Spezza, Gauthier, Tima, and all of them are waiver risks.

Marincin, Gravel, Schmaltz have also all shown something. All more than his pet Hodor for sure. Hell Holl was way better than Hodor too tonight.

Hutch with a big response tonight too.
Click to expand...

Agree -- tough choices coming up. It will likely come down to who they think can clear.

Harpur is beyond bad. He might not be able to stick in Keefe's lineup.
 
TOI blueline

Schmaltz: 24.85
Holl: 21.82
Gravel: 21.55
Harpur: 18.73
Liljegren: 14.72
Rubins: 12.33

I think Liljegren is heading back to the Marlies. Looks like he was testing the top three guys (and probably Harpur).
 
BeLeafer said:
TOI blueline

Schmaltz: 24.85
Holl: 21.82
Gravel: 21.55
Harpur: 18.73
Liljegren: 14.72
Rubins: 12.33

I think Liljegren is heading back to the Marlies. Looks like he was testing the top three guys (and probably Harpur).
Click to expand...


You're probably right. Those numbers don't exactly scream that Liljegren was being given a close look tonight.

Looks more like Schmaltz, Holl & Gravel still being in the running for the 6th & 7th slots on defense. Since the other guy still in that mix is a LHD in Martin Marincin, plus Sandin being a LHD, that probably gives them somewhat of an edge over Gravel.

Probably also noteworthy that Marincin, Holl, Gravel & Schmaltz all make the NHL minimum or less.
 
Yep, last point is noteworthy. I'm guessing they'll be saving every nickel of capspace they can.

I'm fine with whatever, provided Harpur is shunted and Sandin is in. My preference is Sandin-Schmaltz, as the l believe the latter has really good untapped potential (I'm writing off last year, as he was probably recovering from concussion).
 
Yeah, in order of priority for me:


1) Sandin in the top-6
2) Harpur waived/demoted/traded
3) Marincin waived/demoted/traded


I’m pretty sure I’ll get my first two wishes, but I’m not sure yet about the third. And I’d be fine with any of Schmaltz/Holl/Gravel as our 6/7.
 
Unrelated to tonight's game, but why is the prevailing wisdom around this team that they still need to spend to improve the blueline? Rielly-Muzzin-Barrie-Ceci-Dermott and a pick'em from a good bag of depth defenders (with the possibility that Sandin is already a lot better than a "depth" defender).

Who are they expected to upgrade on? Ceci? I'm not pro Ceci, but if he's your number 4, you're pretty good. I keep seeing Boston and Tampa's bluelines used as stroke material by pundits, I don't fucking get it.

Not that I would suggest ranking by this, but just for the sake of objectivity, I'll include their HRef points share metric (adjusted to 82 games), which counts offensive and defensive contributions.

#1) Rielly (11.7)- Hedman (10.4)- McAvoy (8.7)
#2) Muzzin (8.0) - McDonagh (8.9)- Krug (9.1)
#3) Barrie (8.8) - Cernak (6.1) - Chara (6.4)
#4) Ceci (3.4) - Shattenkirk (3.5) - Carlo (4.9)
#5) Dermott (2.7)- Sergachev (5.6) - Moore (3.8)
Avg) TOR (6.9) - TBAY (6.9) - BOS (6.6)

Where exactly are we failing to meet standard here?

-At the #1 I get someone taking Hedman over Rielly, but McAvoy is 3rd there and it's not a close 3rd.
-In the #2 slot Muzzin is probably a step behind McDonagh, but at least even with Krug 5 on 5. Overall this group is pretty close together. Wouldn't fault anyone for taking McDonagh 1st of the group, but it's hardly a deficiency for Toronto either.
- In the 3 slot, he's obviously way different than the other two but Barrie is the runaway best of the 3.
- Tougher to judge the #4 slot because of Ceci's tough usage vs the butter soft usage the other two received. Ceci produced similar 5 on 5 offensive numbers to Shatty but got buried on play driving numbers. I will say though that I don't get why Carlo is rated by anyone. Just okay results with no offence in butter soft usage. There's not a wide gap here between the 3 regardless.
- #5.....Moore is a tire fire so he's 3rd here regardless. Dermott produces less offence than Serg, but drives play better. Dermott got the richest creamery butter of butter soft usage though so it's hard to put a ton of stock in the gap in results between the two. Wouldn't fault anyone for taking Sergachev over Dermott (this season...long term, I don't think this is a conversation at all). But regardless, it's close again.

So where in the fuck are we actually deficient personnel wise on the blueline compared to these two?
 
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I need to delete some of these podcast replays from my youtube subscriptions, the stupidity is killing me.
 
I've been noticing the stupidity of Leafs fans when it comes to blueliners more than usual this preseason.

Schwartz was widely panned for his performance last night, including being awarded the worst player on the ice by Tulloch. I'm not suggesting he was great last night or that he's anything more than a depth guy at this point but I saw one bad turnover last night (missed about 5 minutes, so I might have missed something). The rest was fine to good, as he was tasked with the heavy lifting.

Sure enough, I check the fancies and he was on the ice for 0 HDCAs and 2 SCAs.

You know I'm not prone to going overboard with blueliners, but I look at this:

Muzz-Barrie
Rielly-Ceci
Sandin-Dermott

And wonder if we won't have three top pairs this season (Ceci being a big wildcard, of course).
 
Yeah our D is getting close to stacked.

That looks like 6 top-4 dmen to me right there, and 3 top-pair dmen.

Delete whoever is telling you differentm
 
Rielly-Barrie-Muzzin-Sandin-Dermott is a legit stacked D. How many teams have 3 top pair guys like Rielly-Barrie-Muzzin, including a top 5?

Carolina, San Jose? Nashville, but they took a big hit this offseason.
 
Not many.

TB doesn't.

And BOS only does if you think 41yr old Chara still fits that bill.
 
bottom line is Tampa and Boston were better at preventing goals than the Leafs last season. we need to chop a good 20-30 goals off our GA total from 18-19. I'm hoping a good chunk of that can come from getting decent backup goaltending.
 
Dubas has massively upgraded the blueline over the past year. Muzzin, Barrie and Ceci are a nice improvement over Gardiner, Hainsey and Zaitsev. Added that we'll have Dermott and Sandin as a the third pair being a nice upgrade with Ozhiganov chucked out. The depth being these is very good as well with Schmaltz, Liljegren, Gravel, Holl and Marincin to fill in for injuries.

I predict we'll have the best defense showing in over a decade.
 
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