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The Motherfucking 2021 Season Thread

MindzEye said:
The only question I have about Brodie is whether or not he can carry water in offensive transition for a top pairing. He's had two of the best in hockey beside him to do that for a long time now. If you can't transition north, you find yourself stuck in your own end way more than you need to be.

At a glance he looks like he has the skill set for it, but we've just never seen him have to do it.
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Definitely makes his life easier not to have to do it himself. Probably part of the reason why he looked bad away from Gio in those Dougie years when he played with the likes of Hamonic.
 
Preston said:
Yeah, not sure he's that guy but I don't care about that or about labels. He's exactly what this team has lacked for 5-10 years really. Whether you want to call him a 1, 2 or 3 it's hard for me to custom pick a better name out there for the Leafs especially at that contract.
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100%. He's the only guy who knows how to defend a 2 on 1. And he's very solid, has a calming effect back there. I'm very happy to have him, moreso than I expected when we signed him. Same with Muzz. Like I said, legit #2 guys.
 
zeke said:
Definitely makes his life easier not to have to do it himself. Probably part of the reason why he looked bad away from Gio in those Dougie years when he played with the likes of Hamonic.
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It's where the Rielly hate brigade on Twitter loses the plot. The rarest and most impactful skill for a defender to have is the ability to control the puck in their zone once it's won and be a positive influence in maintaining team possession into the offensive zone. Rielly is one of the top 5-10 in the league at that, and one of the few of those that isn't actually shambolic on the defensive side of the puck (for example...Tyson Barrie & Quinn Hughes).

If Brodie can't actually do it efficiently without help, it might aid the argument that he belongs further down the list a bit. But he's so fucking good in that complimentary role. Calling him a super-elite complimentary #2 defender probably isn't wrong.
 
CH1 said:
Two years ago, Brodie's offensive numbers were cut in half...may have been a conscious decision to prioritize defending.
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Would have to look and don't care at the moment, but also might have been PP time decreased when Calgary got Dougie.
 
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MindzEye said:
So for Muzzin specifically...Zeke posted a list of top producing defenders at 5 on 5, who vaults ahead of him? If Muzzin is 22nd offensively, who behind him is so much better defensively than he is that the deserve to be considered ahead of him?

That list is 32 deep, and I see a handful of names on it behind him that there's just no argument for being better. Krug, Suter, Pulock, Brodin. Looking above him, there's another group of names that I struggle to see as better than Muzzin as well: Barrie, Hughes, Werenski, Weegar, Nurse.

I have a hard time believing that there are going to be a lot of names in the next tier of defenders (#33+) who are so impactful that they leap over Muzzin.

So yeah, even conservatively, Muzzin is probably a top 25 defender in the league.
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The list is covering the last two years. I've consistently said, I'd have considered Muzz in that first category before, but this year he's looked like he's taken a step back. Not sure what those numbers are for this year as Zeke won't play within those confines.

But let's just put it this way, I'm pretty sure that if Brodie was our #1 and the other five guys were worse than him, there wouldn't be anyone here claiming we already had a #1 and didn't need to find one.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
The list is covering the last two years. I've consistently said, I'd have considered Muzz in that first category before, but this year he's looked like he's taken a step back. Not sure what those numbers are for this year as Zeke won't play within those confines.

But let's just put it this way, I'm pretty sure that if Brodie was our #1 and the other five guys were worse than him, there wouldn't be anyone here claiming we already had a #1 and didn't need to find one.
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If Brodie was? Sure, I've stated my feelings about him above already. If Muzzin was? Nah. I mean, we would probably want a better #1. If you want to be a top 5 team, you probably want to have better than the ~25th best defender in the NHL as your #1. Our contemporaries (Tampa *& Colorado) both have elite #1's and keeping pace with them would/should be important to us.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
The list is covering the last two years. I've consistently said, I'd have considered Muzz in that first category before, but this year he's looked like he's taken a step back. Not sure what those numbers are for this year as Zeke won't play within those confines.

But let's just put it this way, I'm pretty sure that if Brodie was our #1 and the other five guys were worse than him, there wouldn't be anyone here claiming we already had a #1 and didn't need to find one.
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Even Strength ppg this year:

Rielly .42
Hamilton .42
Pietrangelo .41
Hughes .38
Hedman .38
Muzzin .37
Jones .36
Krug .36
Giordano .35
Ekblad .31
 
Preston said:
Brodie is as good at defending as Rielly is at generating offense. Both are extremely fucking valuable. Labels be damned. They make up one of the best pairings in the NHL.
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And it shows. 17th & 18th league wide in xGF%, 3rd & 5th in GF%

They're a top 5 pairing around the league.
 
zeke said:
Even Strength ppg this year:

Rielly .42
Hamilton .42
Pietrangelo .41
Hughes .38
Hedman .38
Muzzin .37
Jones .36
Krug .36
Giordano .35
Ekblad .31
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So it's actually significantly better this year?? He's almost top 5? That makes no sense.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
So it's actually significantly better this year?? He's almost top 5? That makes no sense.
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nah i just handpicked a bunch of elite offensive dmen around him.

obviously the smaller the sample the more one-off outliers in the one year sample than the 2 year sample. Muzzin is consistently around this productive at even strength every year.
 
He's a #1 defensively, but can't have just 13 points in 44 games getting all those minutes and be considered a #1 overall.
 
zeke said:
The disconnect comes from believing that the usual Norris trophy guys are actually good defensively, when they're mostly not.
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I don't think a pure offensive guy is a #1 either. Is Tyson Barrie a #1 when he's putting up all those points? Hell no.

The true #1 is a guy who has both a high level offensive and defensive game.
 
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