zeke
Well-known member
Spectacular.
Around the League 2019-2024 Edition
- Thread starter LeafGm
- Start date
Spectacular.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
That's exactly what it means. Or you can claim that we were the greatest hockey nation in the world despite winning 0 WJHC's from 98-2004, 0 world championships from 98-03, and not winning the olympics until 02. At one point the Czech's had won the Olympic gold (98), the IIHF WC's 3 times in a row (99,00,01) and the WJHC (00,01) while having arguably the best player on the planet (Jagr, 4 NHL scoring titles in a row during that period) and best goalie maybe in history (Hasek (6 vezina's during that period....fucking 6, and hilariously was voted 8th one season where he should have won in a walk, award fatigue is a thing). Yeah, the Czech's were probably the best hockey nation in the world at the time.
How the fuck can you claim you're the greatest if you can claim you're the greatest without winning any fucking tournaments at all between 98-01? Because the best league in the world where the rules are made by us to tailor to our style of game is half populated with our players? Kind of a shit argument, no?
We recognized that the way we were teaching and playing hockey was broken at the time. Do you really not remember the Summit?
This is literally you right now talking about that era
Except we didn't even finish 3rd in those olympics, we choked out in the bronze medal game to Finland like the bunch of sucks bitches that team was.
hockeylover
Well-known member
sounds like Rutherford is President and Interim GM so permanent GM still to be hired. it'd be funny if they went Hunter.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
It's official now, 3 yrs.
I'm assuming this is something like their version of our Lou hire. Bring in an old boy to stabilize an organization that has been a train wreck for a long time, let him bring in some quality people to do the heavy lifting and look for someone to grow into the top job within the next few years so Jim can fuck off and golf.
LeafGm
Well-known member
To be fair, although his deficiencies are clear, tough to call Rutherford a “failure” when he won two Cups in his previous stop as GM, and another Cup in the GM gig he had before that.
And I’d suggest that for all his faults, Rutherford is actually pretty decent at taking a contending team and pushing them over the finish line.
Though the really hilarious thing here is that Canucks ownership probably legitimately thinks that, like the Penguins when they hired Rutherford, the Canucks already have the core of a championship caliber team in place and just need Rutherford to make the brilliant win-now moves needed to get them a Cup.
So, this should be a fun train wreck to watch.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Yeah, the success or failure of this move is really going to be based on their intent. If the idea is that this is a 100+ point team that just needs to find it's way...Rutherford is going to trade a pile of futures, turn some of their young guys who are lost in the weeds a bit (Boeser, Pettersson, Hoglander, etc) into veterans or varying quality and the end result is going to be a mediocre team that challenges for a playoff spot every year and maybe wins a round now and again.
They should be doing the opposite. Take everything brought in to "win now" and get whatever you can for it. JT Miller should fetch a solid return, get whatever you can to dump Myers, Hamonic, & Pearson. Try to get some old boys who can still play to come on cheap 1-2 year deals to balance the room a little bit and fill in your depth spots.
leafman101
Well-known member
Rutherford is good. For the Canucks you want someone who can set up the front office and organization to have long term success. IMO experience, particularly cup winning experience is great for that. Kind of like Lou here.
Lou didn't do anything great with the team, but our entire organization is first class, and when a better decision maker was put in place it all came together.
Also, Rutherford has the cred to tell Aquilini to shut up and go away.
Lou didn't do anything great with the team, but our entire organization is first class, and when a better decision maker was put in place it all came together.
Also, Rutherford has the cred to tell Aquilini to shut up and go away.
hockeylover
Well-known member
hockeylover
Well-known member
I know that’s the popular line people throw out but… are we sure that wouldn’t have happened without Lou and isn’t more Shanahan’s doing? I can definitely think of more harmful moves than good ones…
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
Even in 1998 Team Canada would beat all comers in a 7 game series. You know it, I know it.That's exactly what it means. Or you can claim that we were the greatest hockey nation in the world despite winning 0 WJHC's from 98-2004, 0 world championships from 98-03, and not winning the olympics until 02. At one point the Czech's had won the Olympic gold (98), the IIHF WC's 3 times in a row (99,00,01) and the WJHC (00,01) while having arguably the best player on the planet (Jagr, 4 NHL scoring titles in a row during that period) and best goalie maybe in history (Hasek (6 vezina's during that period....fucking 6, and hilariously was voted 8th one season where he should have won in a walk, award fatigue is a thing). Yeah, the Czech's were probably the best hockey nation in the world at the time.
How the fuck can you claim you're the greatest if you can claim you're the greatest without winning any fucking tournaments at all between 98-01? Because the best league in the world where the rules are made by us to tailor to our style of game is half populated with our players? Kind of a shit argument, no?
We recognized that the way we were teaching and playing hockey was broken at the time. Do you really not remember the Summit?
This is literally you right now talking about that era
Except we didn't even finish 3rd in those olympics, we choked out in the bronze medal game to Finland like the bunch of sucks bitches that team was.
Canada is the best hockey nation primarily for two reasons: only a handful of countries even play the sport at a high level and Canada is the only one of them that really cares about being good at it. Other countries like to be good at it. They're happy when they're good at it. But only Canada NEEDS to be good at it. Only Canadians feel that they MUST be the best. Even the Americans and Russians don't really care if they don't win gold because they're good at lots of sports. But this is all Canada has and all it's ever going to have.
leafman101
Well-known member
no we can’t. But Shanny has never run an organization before and Lou has built championship ones.
the bad moves you are thinking about are all on ice. But if you look at how the Leafs front office staff has developed over the last 8 years the progress is undeniable. Scouting, analytics, development etc are all top notch.
LeafGm
Well-known member
The one thing I give Lou the most credit for is the way he ruthlessly and creatively made cap problems like Robidas, Phaneuf, Lupul, etc. go away.
I’m not sure Dubas or Shanny would’ve had the guts to threaten to have Lupul’s family killed if he didn’t toe the company line that he was too injured to play, and then quietly disappear.
I will also say he and Babcock orchestrated the perfect tank to get us Matthews. We managed to sink to the bottom of the standings while still being competitive, well-structured & drama-free, and they wisely kept every legit prospect out of the NHL lineup until it was time to turn things around.
Still glad they’re both gone obviously, but I’m not sure I’d credit all of the positive entries on their ledger entirely to Shanny.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
We lost to the Czech's and Finn's in back to back pressure games. I don't know that at all and neither do you.
We didn't blow away the competition in round robin, and had a similar goal differential to Russia and the Czech's coming out of that round. We got a sweetheart draw in the quarters against Kazakhstan and then lost 2 straight. Against legitimate top international teams we finished the tournament with a goal differential of +1 and were underwater in shot differential until the bronze medal game.
The difference between want and need mean nothing without actual results that back up the braggadocio. For a significant stretch of time, we just posted poor results in international tournaments. That simply can't be explained away without coming to the conclusion that a generation of czech hockey was better than a generation of canadian hockey. The Czech's had two generational players in their prime on the same team, and the Finn's had the tournament scoring leader. There's no shame in losing to that, and no shame in admitting that we had a generation of Canadian hockey that was disappointing in head to head international competition and a generation of decision makers who had massive misconceptions regarding what made Canadian hockey great. It wasn't dump and chase hockey and missing teeth that made us great. We are/were a generational talent factory. We got away from that for a while.
hockeylover
Well-known member
Agreed but... almost no one we have now was hired when Lou was GM.
Not our operations guys (Pridham, Gilman, Metcalf, Morrison, Clark, Mitchell, Hardy), not our coaching staff, not our development staff (Wickenheiser, Goyette, Belfry, Elkin), not our head scouts (Paliafito and Vuori), not our top nerds (Pettapiece, Charron).
All either before or after Lou - none during. They've purged the front office of Lou just like the Roster.
zeke
Well-known member
Rh
Eh.
The tankjob wasn't masterful - the Leafs actually finished 1pt better that year than they had the year before. Thankfully they got the lottery luck that year because with no exaggeration the entire leaf rebuild would have failed if they had gotten any other pick in that lottery.
And for every good contract move he made he anchored us to a Marleau or Zaitsev too.
Eh.
The tankjob wasn't masterful - the Leafs actually finished 1pt better that year than they had the year before. Thankfully they got the lottery luck that year because with no exaggeration the entire leaf rebuild would have failed if they had gotten any other pick in that lottery.
And for every good contract move he made he anchored us to a Marleau or Zaitsev too.
leafman101
Well-known member
I think you convinced me. I'll give the credit to Shanny. Fuck Lou and his jealousy of people who can grow great beards.
CH1
The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Are you kidding me? Let Zeke add the fucking advanced numbers for the best 20 players from every country.
Canada could lose at the Olympics and I would still think we are the best playing hockey nation on the planet. A few games in China ain’t gonna change that
axlsalinger
Well-known member
Rutherford is a good move for Team President to bring some stability in the short term and (theoretically) to build the right team for the long term. Love Boudreau as well but the new GM can bring in his own guy in a year or two if he wants.