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Around the League 2019-2024 Edition

I look at Richard and didn't think that he stacked up with the real tippy top of the mountain guys. 5 Rocket Richard (lol) trophies, which is excellent but in itself isn't crazy. Ovy-9, Hull-7, Esposito-6 and then Richard, Howe, Conacher, Gretzky all tied with 5. 1 Hart, 8 1st team selections and then no other major awards. Obviously great, but I don't see how that tracks against Gordie's legacy, Lidstrom's 7 Norris wins, Jagr's 6 Art Ross', Ovy's 9 Rocket's. I get that he's a cultural icon in Quebec, but I just don't see how he's top 5 without the individual accolades.
 
My argument is those awards are popularity contests outside of the scoring ones.

I prefer tangibles.
 
You're discounting the era he played in and the sheer bullshit he went through but ok. If you want to just go with shit like that? Beliveau.

👍🏼
 
Howe for sure. At 51 he was still doing it.
Richard has to be considered. If you aren't impressed by his stats, ask yourself, what did the second best player of his era do?

One player who also flies under the radar is Bobby Hull. Had he not jumped to the WHA he would be close to 800 goals too
 
Habsy said:
You're discounting the era he played in and the sheer bullshit he went through but ok. If you want to just go with shit like that? Beliveau.

👍🏼
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Howe played in the same era, they're 7 years apart in age.

When their careers overlapped, Gordie was better by a lot. Damn near impossible to not have Gordie in the top 5. The best player of his era by a fair margin, and his longevity was mental.
 
Habsy said:
You're discounting the era he played in and the sheer bullshit he went through but ok. If you want to just go with shit like that? Beliveau.

👍🏼
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Of all the players that I have met, Beliveau was the most regal in person.
He had a real presence.
 
MindzEye said:
Howe played in the same era, they're 7 years apart in age.

When their careers overlapped, Gordie was better by a lot.
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Ok I'll flat out say it, the Refs fucked with Richard mercilessly once he spoke out. For me, the guy had the character of an oak, didn't break.

As I said though, numbers aren't there but as a hockey player? Top five for me.
 
Crosby is an interesting talent. Whenever I've watched him, I've never really been blown away. He is the unflashiest elite star player that I've ever seen. In a lot of ways, Tavares is very similar, just obviously not as good.
 
thehabhater said:
If you aren't impressed by his stats, ask yourself, what did the second best player of his era do?
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I mean, from Richard's 27 yr old season onward, Gordie Howe was the best player of that era and it's not particularly close (Howe won 4 Art Ross trophies in a row in there). If we're talking about just Richard's 22-26 yr old seasons before Gordie took over, his teammate Elmer Lach won 2 Art Ross over those 5 seasons and Max Bentley also had 2 Art Ross' over that 5 year stretch.

So I guess my counter point is that if Richard was ever the best player of his era, it wasn't for a long time and not by a lot.
 
leafman101 said:
i didn’t get to watch the older guys play so it’s tough for me to judge. But I got to watch Lidstrom. Wouldn’t have a problem if anyone said he was better than Sid.
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Fair point. I grew up watching the older guys and clearly remember the "quality" of hockey back then. Not so sure some of these fancy lad superstars could even survive in that era.
 
MindzEye said:
I mean, from Richard's 27 yr old season onward, Gordie Howe was the best player of that era and it's not particularly close (Howe won 4 Art Ross trophies in a row in there). If we're talking about just Richard's 22-26 yr old seasons before Gordie took over, his teammate Elmer Lach won 2 Art Ross over those 5 seasons and Max Bentley also had 2 Art Ross' over that 5 year stretch.

So I guess my counter point is that if Richard was ever the best player of his era, it wasn't for a long time and not by a lot.
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Define "best player"
 
Habsy said:
Ok I'll flat out say it, the Refs fucked with Richard mercilessly once he spoke out. For me, the guy had the character of an oak, didn't break.

As I said though, numbers aren't there but as a hockey player? Top five for me.
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and I expect that from a Habs fan. He's cultural in Montreal, means more than hockey. That's awesome and deserved but I can't go looking at 6 major trophies and elite but not generational counting stats for his era and put him ahead of guys with 10-15 major trophy wins and generational level statistical achievements.
 
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