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Around the League 2019-2024 Edition

leafman101 said:
Because those are two different types of moves.

All of his mistakes have been basically the same mistake:
Kerfoot 4 years $3.5
Johnsson 4 years $3.5
Mrazek 3 years $3.8
Kappy 3 years $3.2
Ritchie 2 years $2.5
Ceci 1 year $4.5

He's shown you can be very effective getting cheap quality depth players, and he's also shown why you should do that.
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Kappy Johnsson Kerfoot were all productive and maintained trade value. nothing wrong with those.

Ritchie and Ceci were youngish upside plays, not proven vet plays like Jarnkrok, and both were more expensive than Jarnkrok.
 
zeke said:
Kappy Johnsson Kerfoot were all productive and maintained trade value. nothing wrong with those.

Ritchie and Ceci were youngish upside plays, not proven vet plays like Jarnkrok, and both were more expensive than Jarnkrok.
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Yeah, I don't see those players in that list being the same situation at all.
 
All those players were (or should've been) traded because they weren't worth the money to the Leafs.

And Kappy is the only one that another team perceived enough value to give us something for. And they were wrong.

The Leafs have received similar performance every year from multiple players making less than $2 mill.
 
Kappy and Johnsson were speedy young guys who showed 20 goal pop early on. We sold them when they didn't follow up on that in the following year, but they were good gambles and good signings for what they were tracking to become. They just both kinda fell off cliffs.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Kappy and Johnsson were speedy young guys who showed 20 goal pop early on. We sold them when they didn't follow up on that in the following year, but they were good gambles and good signings for what they were tracking to become. They just both kinda fell off cliffs.
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Yeah, but that end sentence is the important part. These signings have never brought us value, and Dubas always wants to dump them shortly after.

I mean he's been the one admitting and correcting those mistakes within a year of signing every single time (except Kerfoot).
 
leafman101 said:
Yeah, but that end sentence is the important part. These signings have never brought us value, and Dubas always wants to dump them shortly after.
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He played his cards as things unfolded. If Kappy and Johnsson both scored 25 that year and were tracking upwards, he doesn't trade them because they're fulfilling their promise. Part of any contract is the prospective value that you expect to get in future years. Once they dropped off, Dubie decided to cut bait, and Pitts and NJ gambled that it was an off year and both would rebound and get back on track. Gambled and lost. I don't think they fall into some general rule that you gotta just get rid of depth guys and never sign them for long.

I don't see any issue with Kappy, Johnsson, or even Kerfoot. They were all good signings at the time, but they just didn't work out as planned (though Kerf has been good, and I would never look at him as a bad player like some here do - just a bad trade since it cost us Kadri). Same as if we give Bunting $4M right now and he turns into a 30 point player.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Kappy and Johnsson were speedy young guys who showed 20 goal pop early on. We sold them when they didn't follow up on that in the following year, but they were good gambles and good signings for what they were tracking to become. They just both kinda fell off cliffs.
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Kaps been quite a bust in Pittsburgh given the plans to make him a top 4 winger and play with Crosby/Malkin.
 
leafman101 said:
All those players were (or should've been) traded because they weren't worth the money to the Leafs.

And Kappy is the only one that another team perceived enough value to give us something for. And they were wrong.

The Leafs have received similar performance every year from multiple players making less than $2 mill.
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They were all traded when necessary, some for value some not.
 
What is with Jarnkroks splits last season. He was having a good season in Seattle then completely tanked in Calgary

Quick search says PP time wasnt a significant factor. 2.10 to 1.53 pp mins/gm
 
zeke said:
They were all traded when necessary, some for value some not.
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And part of that was because of our own cap situation. Everyone knew we had to trade those guys. If I'm not mistaken, we had to deal them because of Marleau's contract, just like later when we had to trade Marleau because of his own contract.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
We would've just had the Browns and Johnssons (whoever of the bunch we liked to keep most) and the Mikky types would still be Leafs because there's always room for a $1M free wallet signing here and there. Yeah, we've been good at replacing the lost depth players when they get priced out due to their short term deals, but eventually our luck will run out and we'll sign a few busts and burn a year or two that way.

For instance, we're getting primo value from Bunting - if he leaves after next year, are we confident we're getting another 60 point player out of the trash bin for $900k?
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Not really, no.

A big part of the reason the Buntings and Mikheyevs of the world have signed here for dirt cheap is the open roster spots and opportunities higher up in the lineup left behind by the departure of the previous depth guys.

They wouldn’t have signed here if our forward group was so deep that they’d be in a fight just to get onto the 4th line.

Hell, Mikheyev demanded a trade because even 3rd line ice-time wasn’t good enough for him.
 
LeafGm said:
Not really, no.

A big part of the reason the Buntings and Mikheyevs of the world have signed here for dirt cheap is the open roster spots and opportunities higher up in the lineup left behind by the departure of the previous depth guys.

They wouldn’t have signed here if our forward group was so deep that they’d be in a fight just to get onto the 4th line.

Hell, Mikheyev demanded a trade because even 3rd line ice-time wasn’t good enough for him.
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When you've got guys penciled in on 3-4 year deals, they have no say in where they play in the lineup. After, sure, they can voice their displeasure by leaving.

But you could have a Mikky on a 3 year deal and then tell a Bunting you'll sign him and give him top 6 minutes. You're not selling Mikky at that point and can do whatever you want that makes the team better.
 
Engvall will score 20 goals this year. We'll hear a lot of talk about the millions he'll get a a UFA. Dude has abs of steel!
 
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