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Around The League - 2024-25 Regular Season

Krustchev said:
Obviously but it’s still the most likely to eventually succeed even if not that likely.
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Exactly. To not try is stupid. Just because Buffalo and Edmonton are shitty franchises doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water.
 
GEEMAN said:
Being shit is the only way you add Sid, Geno , Nate , and Rantanen

You don’t need to tank , your team simply stinks

You can speed up the rebuild by dumping vets but you are what are you are
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You ever hear the expression

Newer is not necessarily better?
 
Habsy said:
You ever hear the expression

Newer is not necessarily better?
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I sigh whenever I read here from Sal and Count that the “rebuild” will be done/complete after next summer. It won’t be, obviously. It’s not like HuGo can snap their fingers and say “Rebuild done, we’re now going to be good for the next 7 years.” Only Rags can because two superstars decided they would only play for them. Not gonna happen with us. 3-5 year organic rebuild. Done when it’s done.
 
Everything has to go perfect for that to even be close to being true. First overall this summer and a lot of luck in trades.
 
Paying $15M to an all-time player never has been, and never will be, the problem. It's far too simplistic to say "the [insert team here] will never win because they paid [insert super elite player here] too much!". Frankly, that lacks any kind of critical thinking.

The real problems? 1- Not drafting well enough and 2- Overpaying for the middle of the line-up players. Paying players like Josh Anderson, Joel Armia, Jonathan Drouin a combined $14.4M. It's a minor miracle we made it to the finals in 2021, but when you have an all-time goalie going balls out for his last chance at glory?

The Edmonton Oilers are never going to win anything with McDavid, unfortunately, and it's got literally nothing to do with McDavid. Paying Nurse, Barrie and Ceci a combined $17M, and not including Jack Campbell's $5M caphit in the mix, will prevent them from going anywhere. McDavid was > 2PPG last playoffs and was probably the best player I've ever seen live during that run. The Oilers were thoroughly outclassed against Colorado because outside of him, Draisaitl, RNH and the odd player here & there, his team was constructed by dinosaurs and the money spent on those were players is atrocious. Deadmonton's prospect pool is nothing to write home about, they don't have a whole bunch of great prospects coming up and they've got a lot of money that hasn't been wisely spent.

Why is Tampa Bay a modern day dynasty? I will grant you that in part, Hedman/Point/Kucherov are making less there than they would on the open market. But they're paid, maybe 90% of their real worth on the market. It's not like their annual salaries would double if they took the market rate, they'd be making maybe a $1M or so more. Another part, which frankly is much more relevant, is they're the best drafting team since the late 90s / early 2000s Detroit Red Wings. They got good to great players regularly with their 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks. The moment they drafted Steven Stamkos, their franchise #1 center with (hey, who'da thunk it?) a lottery pick in 2008, they drafted at least one NHL regular every single year from 2008 to 2017. They made very wise trades, made very good cap decisions, and voila.

Speaking about Tampa Bay, who were their overpaid, middle of the lineup players? Looking at last year's roster, the only player I could identify as being overpaid for what he brings would be McDonagh. The two years before? Tyler Johnson. Both of those players ended up getting traded not soon after.
 
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GrandWazoo said:
And that tanking isn’t the answer that so many think it is.
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It actually is. It is definitely the easiest and most surefire way to get elite talent to your franchise. There is no other more reliable way.

It isn't, however, the end-all-be-all that many think it is. Too many think, we get a lottery pick once or twice and we're set. Noooooooope.

Unfortunately, it always comes back to the same thing: Who else did you draft beyond your lottery picks? If you look at the usual suspects, the Buffalos, the Deadmontons, the Floridas, who never really got anywhere... They also couldn't figure out how to identify good players beyond those lottery picks.
 
GGpX said:
It actually is. It is definitely the easiest and most surefire way to get elite talent to your franchise. There is no other more reliable way.

It isn't, however, the end-all-be-all that many think it is. Too many think, we get a lottery pick once or twice and we're set. Noooooooope.

Unfortunately, it always comes back to the same thing: Who else did you draft beyond your lottery picks? If you look at the usual suspects, the Buffalos, the Deadmontons, the Floridas, who never really got anywhere... They also couldn't figure out how to identify good players beyond those lottery picks.
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I agree about getting elite talents, even that is about a 50% rate, but I’m talking about winning Cups. As you said earlier, you also need to be good at drafting and developing period. Depth is important.
 
GrandWazoo said:
Part of why I’m not sure I actually want Bedard.

McKinnon is the only 1st overall pick to have won a Cup since Stamkos, and he did it on a team friendly deal.
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Only since Stamkos? He litterally did it the year after Stamkos won back to back Cups... which was only a year removed from Ovie winning the year after Crosby won back to back Cups and that was the year after Kane won the Cup.

Of the past 8 Cups, only St. Louis has won without a 1st overall pick.
 
GGpX said:
Paying $15M to an all-time player never has been, and never will be, the problem. It's far too simplistic to say "the [insert team here] will never win because they paid [insert super elite player here] too much!". Frankly, that lacks any kind of critical thinking.

The real problems? 1- Not drafting well enough and 2- Overpaying for the middle of the line-up players. Paying players like Josh Anderson, Joel Armia, Jonathan Drouin a combined $14.4M. It's a minor miracle we made it to the finals in 2021, but when you have an all-time goalie going balls out for his last chance at glory?

The Edmonton Oilers are never going to win anything with McDavid, unfortunately, and it's got literally nothing to do with McDavid. Paying Nurse, Barrie and Ceci a combined $17M, and not including Jack Campbell's $5M caphit in the mix, will prevent them from going anywhere. McDavid was > 2PPG last playoffs and was probably the best player I've ever seen live during that run. The Oilers were thoroughly outclassed against Colorado because outside of him, Draisaitl, RNH and the odd player here & there, his team was constructed by dinosaurs and the money spent on those were players is atrocious. Deadmonton's prospect pool is nothing to write home about, they don't have a whole bunch of great prospects coming up and they've got a lot of money that hasn't been wisely spent.

Why is Tampa Bay a modern day dynasty? I will grant you that in part, Hedman/Point/Kucherov are making less there than they would on the open market. But they're paid, maybe 90% of their real worth on the market. It's not like their annual salaries would double if they took the market rate, they'd be making maybe a $1M or so more. Another part, which frankly is much more relevant, is they're the best drafting team since the late 90s / early 2000s Detroit Red Wings. They got good to great players regularly with their 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks. The moment they drafted Steven Stamkos, their franchise #1 center with (hey, who'da thunk it?) a lottery pick in 2008, they drafted at least one NHL regular every single year from 2008 to 2017. They made very wise trades, made very good cap decisions, and voila.

Speaking about Tampa Bay, who were their overpaid, middle of the lineup players? Looking at last year's roster, the only player I could identify as being overpaid for what he brings would be McDonagh. The two years before? Tyler Johnson. Both of those players ended up getting traded not soon after.
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Of course it's simplistic, those are just guidelines parameters, not hard rules. Obviously, there is a threshold where it stops making sense. Maybe 20% of cap space isn't it for you but I'd like to think that one player making 80% would be. While I believe that having elite talent is an important component for winning cups, having a balanced team with depth and a well rounded supporting cast is just as important, and we need to be able to pay those guys too. Gotta be able to draft well and be smart with money. Term on depth guys is what is truly stupid, not paying their short term value.
 
Habspatrol said:
Only since Stamkos? He litterally did it the year after Stamkos won back to back Cups... which was only a year removed from Ovie winning the year after Crosby won back to back Cups and that was the year after Kane won the Cup.

Of the past 8 Cups, only St. Louis has won without a 1st overall pick.
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Yeah, all from that 2003-2008 batch. And none of those teams had a 10M+ on their roster. And 3 of the 4 winners before the 8 last didn't.
 
2003-2008 guys won 9 Cups. Lafleur won 5, Potvin 4. All other 1st round picks combined won 6 with their drafted teams (not double counting Cups by Houle, as he won 1 without Flower. Similarly I'm not double counting Fleury/Crosby).
 
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