Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Oh I’m well aware of the slippery slope and because of this little tête-à-tête (yeah the Canes brought French into this) I think both clubs will ensure their prize prospects are locked up before reengaging.
Canes Sign Kotkaniemi To Offer Sheet/Habs Don't Match
- Thread starter andyt
- Start date
Like I said... "nobody."
At this point, it's one to one in terms of hostile attacks. Maybe everybody just lives with the fallout of this one and calls it even. Ya know ... like grownups.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
I think that will happen if Bergevin leaves. Not so sure about it should he stay. Ego and all.
Heck I wouldn’t put it past him to retaliate with his new club even.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
Sheesh, Jack Todd's take is just about as stupid as any I've read so far.
Apparently Todd can't get past the various digs the Canes threw in for entertainment value and comprehend that the Canes actually want KK, and the too high salary is the only way the offer sheet works to acquire the player using this method.
Petty? Yeah, the Canes threw some zingers in their approach. Those were petty, but funny, digs at the Aho offer sheet. But this is about trying to acquire KK, not just some game to the Canes. What a dummy this Todd guy is.
On this somewhat frequently made comment about how the Canes should have payed Dougie Hamilton $9 million per instead and not done this KK offer sheet. The Canes made a decision not to give Dougie that massive AAV taking him well into his 30s. Its not always the right move to give huge paydays to UFAs to retain them (see Skinner, Jeff and Faulk, Justin). Like everything every hockey team does in terms of contracts and rosters....letting Dougie walk was a calculated risk. No one knows exactly what will happen with Dougie with the Devils and that giant contract. No one is quite sure how the Canes blueline will perform without Dougie. But the Canes efforts to secure KK, a young center we likely do need with 2 of our top 3 centers nearing UFA status, via the offer sheet route, after trying to trade for him, doesn't necessarily mean that same money would have been better spent on paying Dougie. Says who? How do they know?
Until the Canes are proven wrong, no one really knows if anything that has been done by the Canes this offseason is really a mistake. They have some darn smart analytics guys they pay good money to. The Canes have also made the playoffs 3 straight years. We don't know if it would have been smarter for the Canes to pay Dougie $8-9 million per to retain him and leave us with no cap room to do anything to secure a younger center like we are trying to do with with KK.
We don't know if TDA and Bear and Ian Cole are good enough to make up for the loss of Dougie.
We don't know for sure if KK is just not good and won't improve at all.
We don't know if Ned is really any good, he sure didn't look like he was for most of his pro career until this past strange season.
We don't know if Freddie Andersen and Raanta will play to their potential or suck.
No one knows.
I do know this. The Dundon/Waddell/Tulsky crew have sure been right about things way more frequently than they have been wrong.
One more point, since the other thing I have seen a lot of is how the Canes will be much worse because of their goaltending moves, making the 1st round pick the Habs would get if they don't match a potential lottery pick. The last the NHL saw Petr Mrazek before he signed with the Canes, he was a train wreck of goalie for the Flyers. I remember when the Canes signed him how worried I was about his level of play over the prior 3 seasons. With the Canes, suddenly he was reborn and played pretty well for us the first season, then not so great in season 2, and then was hurt most of season 3. The point is the CANES I think had a lot to do with why Mrazek looked pretty good as a split role goalie. I don't know why so many people seem to think Mrazek is simply going to go somewhere else and be just as good as he was for the Canes. I also don't agree with everyone who is so sure that Freddie Andersen is going to suddenly make the Canes so bad that we miss the playoffs. Every goalie except the train wreck that was Scott Darling, from Mrazek to McElhinney to Ned to Reimer looked good for the Canes. If you think that Freddie Andersen is just going to suck for the Canes because he was hurt last season and didn't play great for the Leafs, let me make a counter prediction for you. Mrazek is not going to be anything but an average to below average goalie for the Leafs for the entirety of that contract. In my opinion, its more likely that Freddie Andersen plays good to great for the Canes than it is that Petr Mrazek plays good to great for the Leafs. That isn't to say the Leafs shouldn't have moved on from Freddie Andersen, but I think many Leafs fans are way too high on Mrazek and too many people are way too down on Freddie Andersen.
Anyhow, I'm expecting the Habs to match this offer sheet, so this will be fun to talk about for a while until then. The Canes don't suck by the way (to those who for some reason think we do now without Dougie, Ned, Mrazek McGinn and Foegele). Pretty sure the Canes are still a really really good team, but we will find out soon enough.
---end rant---
Apparently Todd can't get past the various digs the Canes threw in for entertainment value and comprehend that the Canes actually want KK, and the too high salary is the only way the offer sheet works to acquire the player using this method.
Petty? Yeah, the Canes threw some zingers in their approach. Those were petty, but funny, digs at the Aho offer sheet. But this is about trying to acquire KK, not just some game to the Canes. What a dummy this Todd guy is.
On this somewhat frequently made comment about how the Canes should have payed Dougie Hamilton $9 million per instead and not done this KK offer sheet. The Canes made a decision not to give Dougie that massive AAV taking him well into his 30s. Its not always the right move to give huge paydays to UFAs to retain them (see Skinner, Jeff and Faulk, Justin). Like everything every hockey team does in terms of contracts and rosters....letting Dougie walk was a calculated risk. No one knows exactly what will happen with Dougie with the Devils and that giant contract. No one is quite sure how the Canes blueline will perform without Dougie. But the Canes efforts to secure KK, a young center we likely do need with 2 of our top 3 centers nearing UFA status, via the offer sheet route, after trying to trade for him, doesn't necessarily mean that same money would have been better spent on paying Dougie. Says who? How do they know?
Until the Canes are proven wrong, no one really knows if anything that has been done by the Canes this offseason is really a mistake. They have some darn smart analytics guys they pay good money to. The Canes have also made the playoffs 3 straight years. We don't know if it would have been smarter for the Canes to pay Dougie $8-9 million per to retain him and leave us with no cap room to do anything to secure a younger center like we are trying to do with with KK.
We don't know if TDA and Bear and Ian Cole are good enough to make up for the loss of Dougie.
We don't know for sure if KK is just not good and won't improve at all.
We don't know if Ned is really any good, he sure didn't look like he was for most of his pro career until this past strange season.
We don't know if Freddie Andersen and Raanta will play to their potential or suck.
No one knows.
I do know this. The Dundon/Waddell/Tulsky crew have sure been right about things way more frequently than they have been wrong.
One more point, since the other thing I have seen a lot of is how the Canes will be much worse because of their goaltending moves, making the 1st round pick the Habs would get if they don't match a potential lottery pick. The last the NHL saw Petr Mrazek before he signed with the Canes, he was a train wreck of goalie for the Flyers. I remember when the Canes signed him how worried I was about his level of play over the prior 3 seasons. With the Canes, suddenly he was reborn and played pretty well for us the first season, then not so great in season 2, and then was hurt most of season 3. The point is the CANES I think had a lot to do with why Mrazek looked pretty good as a split role goalie. I don't know why so many people seem to think Mrazek is simply going to go somewhere else and be just as good as he was for the Canes. I also don't agree with everyone who is so sure that Freddie Andersen is going to suddenly make the Canes so bad that we miss the playoffs. Every goalie except the train wreck that was Scott Darling, from Mrazek to McElhinney to Ned to Reimer looked good for the Canes. If you think that Freddie Andersen is just going to suck for the Canes because he was hurt last season and didn't play great for the Leafs, let me make a counter prediction for you. Mrazek is not going to be anything but an average to below average goalie for the Leafs for the entirety of that contract. In my opinion, its more likely that Freddie Andersen plays good to great for the Canes than it is that Petr Mrazek plays good to great for the Leafs. That isn't to say the Leafs shouldn't have moved on from Freddie Andersen, but I think many Leafs fans are way too high on Mrazek and too many people are way too down on Freddie Andersen.
Anyhow, I'm expecting the Habs to match this offer sheet, so this will be fun to talk about for a while until then. The Canes don't suck by the way (to those who for some reason think we do now without Dougie, Ned, Mrazek McGinn and Foegele). Pretty sure the Canes are still a really really good team, but we will find out soon enough.
---end rant---
Last edited:
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
I'm in this same camp CMal...as much as I have read in some of the entertaining comment sections on Sportsnet and some other Hab forums who pretty much have 95% of Habs fans bidding au revoir to KK and helping him pack his bags, I think they match it only because you just do not let a 21 year old, third overall pick leave that easily, that soon in his career. It has been entertaining the past few days to talk about it and I know our friends Habsy and HabsPatrol both believe he is leaving the Strip Club Capital of the World...but I think at the end of the week, he is still a Hab.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
You just let Todd win. I know you’re relatively new to him but he’s best read unopened.
Yeah. I learned my lesson years ago. I ain't even opening that shit.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
For those with an Athletic subscription, the Down Goes Brown piece by Sean McIndoe on the KK offer sheet is a great read.
On Carolina's supposed impending suckage ... before this crap hit the fan yesterday, we were starting to see the first round of "too early" predictions for the upcoming season. I didn't anybody predict the Canes lower than 3rd in the Metro other than one guy based out of DC. Yeah, go figure on that one, right? Most seemed to think the Canes were the only legit challengers to NYI, even without Dougie.
So, yeah ... I don't put too much stock in that stuff, but with a gun to my head I'd probably rank them about the same. There exists a non-zero percent chance of pretty much every single NHL team getting crap goaltending and falling apart, so ... the usual caveats apply. But all of this, "you guys suck anyway" stuff is horsecrap. As is the "you're one key injury away from sucking" stuff. Yeah, so is almost everybody, every year. I guess you just have to learn how to plow through that particular debris field. You'd think long term Hurricanes fans would have developed that skill by now, since it's gone with the territory since 1997 ... when "the idiotic decision to move South will surely relegate them to DFL for the foreseeable future" was the hot thing with the geniuses in the hockey media.
So, yeah ... I don't put too much stock in that stuff, but with a gun to my head I'd probably rank them about the same. There exists a non-zero percent chance of pretty much every single NHL team getting crap goaltending and falling apart, so ... the usual caveats apply. But all of this, "you guys suck anyway" stuff is horsecrap. As is the "you're one key injury away from sucking" stuff. Yeah, so is almost everybody, every year. I guess you just have to learn how to plow through that particular debris field. You'd think long term Hurricanes fans would have developed that skill by now, since it's gone with the territory since 1997 ... when "the idiotic decision to move South will surely relegate them to DFL for the foreseeable future" was the hot thing with the geniuses in the hockey media.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
I expect Carolina to make the playoffs. That being said, injuries have derailed many a team so you really can’t be sure. Your first next year is likely to be in the 20’s, should they miss the best would likely be at 10. This is what they are weighing right now and it’s a fool’s bet to bank on the Canes missing. Sometimes fools get lucky though.
Anyone who claims the Canes will suck is stupid... or like me... if we don't match "I hope the Canes suck."
Gun to my head, I think the Canes aren't as good as last year on paper. That said, I still think they're a good team that should comfortably make the playoffs. I'll definitely be buying some voodoo do;;s though,
Gun to my head, I think the Canes aren't as good as last year on paper. That said, I still think they're a good team that should comfortably make the playoffs. I'll definitely be buying some voodoo do;;s though,
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
I still think they’re a playoff team but as you say, on paper, they appear less of a cup contender.
Who said I was sure? The only thing I'm sure of is that reports of how bad they suck are dumb, based on nothing more complicated than inattention or emotion, and are almost certainly wrong.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Not the point I was making but yeah, that’s annoying.
IMO they were a high B level contender last year and would be a mid to low B level contender going in to this season. 4-6 seed territory, unlikely to beat an A level contender in the playoffs. But I'm not sure anybody other than Tampa is a really a firm A level in the East right now. That B tier is a lot deeper and more diverse.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
The Metro scares me and the schedule the Canes face will be nothing like the Nashville-Detroit-Chicago fun they had last season. They are definitely a playoff team, but I'm not about to call them anything more than that until I see how all these new guys adapt to their new surroundings. If I had to rank the High Level A contenders in the NHL right now it would be Colorado and Tampa and that's about it...Vegas, maybe as well. If I had to pick one team that improved the most and might be inching closer to contender status I might pick Florida with everything they have done to improve.
I think the idea of an A, B,C, D level contender with A being a good chance to win it all and C being playoff bubble is probably as granular as you can get. High level B? Meh. That stuff isn’t predictable like that. You can know the teams that look to be great but step down from there and there are too many variables.
Gun to my head this team will be better than last years. Last year they never really figured things out and got out of their own way. Brindy was frustrated by that and amazed that “nothing seemed to phase them”. That was good in that they never gave up but geeze they made it hard for themselves.
this team will have some veteran depth and grit that was missing last year. The young forwards should all be better (Aho, Neces, Svetch). Turbo should be better. Plus there’s a chance that one of the next batch of kids has a great year.
Goaltending was solid last year but I think that’s as much the team in front.
so to think anything better than 18-22 on our #1 next season is pretty out there.
Gun to my head this team will be better than last years. Last year they never really figured things out and got out of their own way. Brindy was frustrated by that and amazed that “nothing seemed to phase them”. That was good in that they never gave up but geeze they made it hard for themselves.
this team will have some veteran depth and grit that was missing last year. The young forwards should all be better (Aho, Neces, Svetch). Turbo should be better. Plus there’s a chance that one of the next batch of kids has a great year.
Goaltending was solid last year but I think that’s as much the team in front.
so to think anything better than 18-22 on our #1 next season is pretty out there.
Hey, Hab fans are all too familiar with hearing about how much the Habs suck and how lucky we were to make the finals.
I go A to C, but in my world the B group is huge and the C group are the ones playing for draft position. I don't see a huge distinction between a large group of teams that are all a hot goalie streak away from a deep run, and that encompasses the bulk of the league ... thus the High B, Low B stuff.
As for the Canes, I just think they went from "high potential, erratic delivery" territory to "lower potential, more consistent results." The bottom line is probably going to look pretty much the same, and I only really ding them for the loss of what Dougie brings in OT and on the PP1 in the regular season. Otherwise, this is very much the same team, but with more veterans in the support roles and in net.