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Leaf Rumours

and I think you're both severely under estimating two things

1) How diminished Vinny has been since the surgeries
2) That contract and it's ability to hamstring you in the future if Vinny gets old in a hurry but has no desire to retire.


The knock on Marleau is that he doesn't produce without Thornton...which is only half true really...he was a PPG player before landing on Thornton's wing last year....but he and Thornton have done a lot of damage together on the PP since Thornton got to SJ.

I could see a small drop off away from SJ's PP....but playing with Kessel & Kaberle on Toronto's PP and getting top minutes on it would off set much of the expected decline.

Taking Briere though, who's smaller, older, no more productive, and rather injury prone over Marleau...who has never missed more than 8 games in a season in his entire career (only missed 27 games in his 11 1/2 year career) and is capable of similar offensive out put....is...well, a head scratcher.
 
In pretty much a worst case scenario, where we can't get him back to elite form, we'd basically have a 29 year old version of Mats, potting 35-45 a year scoring at a ppg pace.

Vinny and Kessel at a combined 13 mil per, is fine by me.

Say a package consisting of....

Schenn
Hagman
Grabo
Blake

4

Vinny?


Sign me up.
 
I think what it comes down to is Lecavalier is better than those guys.

And actually, given the fact that he has the size (unlike Briere) and his game doesn't rely completely on his speed (like Marleau), he stands the best chance at longevity at a high level of the three.

Plus you can dump Blake or Finger.
 
Since the surgeries

106GP 35G 91PTS (.86PPG)

Over 82? 27G 44A 71PTS


Worst case scenario isn't Mats Sundin. It isn't potting 35-45 a year.

It's potting 25-30 a year, for elite money, for the next 10 years...
 
Something else to consider.

2006-07: 22:36/16:20/1:32/4:44
2007-08: 22:57/17:13/1:33/4:10
2008-09: 20:15/14:33/1:26/4:15
2009-10: 19:50/14:27/0:49/4:33

ES Production

2006-07: 63 pts
2007-08: 59 pts
2008-09: 41 pts
2009-10: 13 pts (82 gm pace: 38 pts)

PP Production

2006-07: 36 pts
2007-08: 29 pts
2008-09: 24 pts
2009-10: 11 pts (82 game pace: 23 pts)

The majority in his drop of production (100 point season aside) has come from receiving significantly less ES time.
 
Factinista said:
OK, apparently he had shoulder surgery after his most recent "great" season in 07-08.

I'm no physiotherapist and I haven't played sports at a high level, but I wouldn't have thought that shoulder problems could hobble a player so much. Knee, back, ankle? Sure.
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He's actually had multiple major surgeries the past couple of years - both on his shoulder and his wrist.
 
The thing is, if this were possible at all for the Leafs, you know Burke is all over it, risk be damned. He understands how important elite talent is and when you get a chance you go for it. Those were pretty much his exact words after the Kessel deal. And you know what? Burke most likely won't be around to deal with the last few years of that contract anyway. Don't think that's not a factor. Burkie is a proud guy and he is determined to get this turned around ASAP.

Adding a legit #1 centre means we're a playoff team a lot sooner....maybe even this year, depending on how Gustavsson holds up. Which is what we might as well go for now that Boston has our picks. For the Lightning and their troubled ownership, it will provide them huge salary cap relief down the road(and room for Stamkos to sign longterm, money for Hedman, etc). For Vinny it would be a fresh start in a market that would worship him(in fact, one that has worshipped far lesser players over the years). Plus, the habfans would go absolutely apeshit, which might be the best part. You think Komisarek is thought of as a traitor? You think he gets booed? Imagine if their darling foretold one of prophecy skates onto their ice wearing the blue and white...yikes. I think Montreal is out of the trade running right now. I don't see any way they can take Vinny without unloading Gomez on somebody, but I guess if the Rangers could do it maybe Gainey can too. It's not impossible but I don't see it.

What can the Leafs offer? Well, they have a number of young players not named Kadri or Kessel to give up, cheap(er) and useful players like White and Hagman that can step in and contribute right away, and some expiring contracts they can move. Tampa would have to take one of Blake or Finger, but the Leafs can offer other guys that are on expiring deals.
 
Actually after doing some research he had a shoulder surgery two offseasons ago. He was supposed to have wrist surgery initially, but opted not to have both at the same time.

Meaning, he spent all of last year with an injured wrist before having it fixed this summer.

No surprise he couldn't score.
 
I'd be all over Vinny if he had 3-4 years left on that deal. As it stands though, if he doesn't get his mojo back, with that contract he could become the Vernon Wells of the NHL.

Except that there are 10 years left on his deal after this season, as opposed to 5 with Vernon.
 
Lecavalier is nothing like Wells. Wells was a below average player last year.

Lecavalier is still a legit first line player.
 
I would take Vinny. He's a resurgence waiting to happen.

It would be a great fit, and both he and Kessel would routinely pop 100 points together each year.
 
If this was just a malaise, I would have a lot more faith in Vinny bouncing back, and I'd be cool with it.

But that is one **** of a gamble on what has been a 27 goal 71 point centreman in over 100 games since his surgeries.

It's one thing if we can move him in a contract dump....getting rid of some of our bad deals to take on that massive deal...maybe throwing in some other things of moderate value along with Blake & Finger.

But that simply won't be enough, someone else will throw real assets in there to get him and I'm simply not interested in seeing real assets thrown Tampa's way to bail them out of what is starting to appear to be a legit albatross of a deal.
 
I think you're overstating the Vinny is done thing. He had a bad year last year playing the whole thing with an injured wrist that needed surgery.

This year he is top 10 in PP assists, and top 20 in assists, and the only thing keeping him away from being a ppg+ player is that he is scoring goals at an uncharacteristically low rate. In fact, he is on pace to score the least amount of goals he has scored since his rookie year.

Even last year with an injured wrist he scored 30.

Its highly unlikely that Lecavalier suddenly went from a 30 goal scorer in a bad year, to a 15 goal scorer over night. This won't be par for the course for the rest of his contract.
 
It's December 9th, are we not approaching some kind of Burke-imposed-holiday-trade-deadline? I can't believe that the team is in 29th place and he hasn't made a significant move yet. Not even a waiver wire pick-up.
 
We did trade Tlusty ... but I'd rather not talk about that :)

For people complaining about not making significant move though, trades just aren't that easy in today's NHL, and if the team's improved its play without having to make a significant trade, why take that route? When you're sitting 29th in the league like you said, you aren't going to be trading at a position of advantage with most of the teams.
 
Shane O'Brien will soon be traded as Vancouver Canucks GM Mike Gillis is actively offering the defenseman around the league. Puck Prospectus writes that the Toronto Maple Leafs are a team that could be interested because of the type of player GM Brian Burke seeks out -- tough, gritty guys.

The Ottawa Sun's Bruce Garrioch writes, "Nobody is sure exactly what Gillis wants in return, but knowing him, it's probably too much. O'Brien might be able to help a team like the Sharks."

O'Brien was rumored to be going to Phoenix for Peter Mueller, but the Coyotes tried to move Mueller to the Rangers -- a trade that is likely not going to happen. That said, an O'Brien-for-Mueller deal may be more likely now.
Click to expand...


What are the Leafs exactly going to do with another relatively well paid bottom pair defender?

Unless they move out Finger and Exelby, this makes no sense.


The Atlanta Thrashers have officially put Kari Lehtonen on the market, according to RDS's Bob Hartley, and it will cost his suitors a conditional draft pick.

That said, the market for goalies should be interesting come trade time. Several are on the market -- including Lehtonen, Martin Biron, Jean-Sebastien Giguere, Vesa Toskala and Jaroslav Halak -- but because of team situations, the teams that want Halak will also likely look at Lehtonen. Hartley, in fact, suggests that the Habs should trade Halak before Lehtonen goes on the market.

Lehtonen will be back from injury around New Year's, but Ondrej Pavelec and Johan Hedberg have proven to be a solid one-two combo. So Lehtonen is the odd man out.

As the Hockey News writes, despite his $3 million salary, Lehtonen's suitors will only have to pay part of his salary.

So a possible landing spot? How about Detroit, where the Red Wings are still hoping the Chris Osgood-Jimmy Howard combo is good enough.
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A conditional pick for a potentially elite, young goalie? Sign me up for this.



Anaheim Ducks GM Bob Murray was spotted by The Fourth Period's David Pagnotta at the Thrashers-Leafs game, which might indicate that something is going on between the Leafs and Ducks. Meanwhile, Leafs scouts have been spotted at previous Ducks games, only furthering the speculation.

Rumor is that Murray has been entertaining "numerous trade scenarios," according to The Fourth Period. Teams have asked about the availability of Bobby Ryan and Scott Niedermayer, but it appears Ryan isn't going anywhere while Niedermayer may be trade bait.

Two names that keep coming up in Ducks trade talks are Joffrey Lupul and Jean-Sebastien Giguere, so those guys may be moved at some point this season. Though the Leafs will likely stay away from Giguere, Lupul might be the guy they're after.

Puck Prospectus writes that one possible scenario might be a Giguere for Vesa Toskala deal, with other pieces involved.
Click to expand...


No Lupul or Giguere please.
 
Giguere and a 1st
for
Toskala and Finger

They save some cash next year and we open up a spot on D and cement our goaltending for next year. And get to draft.
 
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