• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

Leaf Rumours

I said that for our team, a defensive dman like Komi was more valuable than a guy like Beauch, who Kabs, Phaneuf, Gunnar, and even Schenn are better versions of. Not sure why Komi's play has tailed off so badly though.

But yeah, wait and see - just like Blake, Kulemin, Simmonds, and the host of other players the majority round these parts totally misread. You know who you are...Squeaky.
 
Just the principle of trading an up-and-comer for a soon-to-be-useless rapidly aging player should be enough to give every last Leafs fan the eebie jeebies. But, remarkably, it does not.

**** Burke - he ****ed up this team and is trying to save his ass by acquiring a guy with absolutely no future benefit beyond this season.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I said that for our team, a defensive dman like Komi was more valuable than a guy like Beauch, who Kabs, Phaneuf, Gunnar, and even Schenn are better versions of. Not sure why Komi's play has tailed off so badly though.
Click to expand...

beauchemin is better defensively than komisarek. and gunnarsson is not a 'better version' of beauchemin... neither is kaberle. those guys aren't even remotely comparable to beauchemin.

But yeah, wait and see - just like Blake, Kulemin, Simmonds, and the host of other players the majority round these parts totally misread. You know who you are...Squeaky.
Click to expand...

i can't believe you're pounding your chest on matters that you aren't even correct on. What were you right about inre: Blake? He spent his first two years here getting massively underrated. it doesn't mean he was a good signing, or that he shouldn't have been dealt. at this point he's a small and aging player. But at the same time his 63 points in 08-09 was the second highest output by a Leafs forward since the lockout. That might say more about this team than Jason Blake but that's pretty much irrelevant. Blake had hsi shortcomings but he was a good hockey player, a legitimate top notch second liner and arguably a borderline first line winger. Now he's old. Him getting old doesnt' mean people 'misread' him. It just means that the contract he signed -- which was unanimously deemed a stupidly long contract -- was stupidly long.

As for Simmonds.. you really haven't the slightest clue that you're talking about. Funny that you would make every excuse in the world for Gunnarsson and his poor play.. yet simmonds, who is two years younger, doesnt' get the same benefit of the doubt. That aside, with Williams back, healthy and scoring, his ice time has been cut into. So once again you prove.... that when you don't know what you're talking about you spout off rather than searching for readily available information.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
It's just too funny already.
Click to expand...

Yeah, its ****ing hilarious. Your overwhelming biased & hatred for beach is so obvikous, yet you're so friggin stubborn you cant even admit it. Even when SEVERAL people here are all telling you the same thing you still think you're right. It's a joke.

Drop the ego dude. Seriously.
 
Last edited:
I totally forgot to mention Kulemin.. again, I dare you to show me where I 'misread' him. I've always maintained that he has the upside to be a solid second liner... which is what he has become. If you want to suggest that I stated otherwise then I dare you to show me where. I criticized him when he played poorly, and have praised him for the improvements he has made defensively and physically (which has resulted in his improved offensive output). I never denied that he had potential, or, frankly, misread him. you were the one fellating him when he was playing poorly and almost played himself out of a spot on the roster. That you 'stuck by him' doesn't make you some sort of visionary.. it just makes you gay for Kulemin.

In any event, Kulemin has turned into a pretty decent player. But you aren't the only one who thought that he could. But anyways, good for you, you know second line talent when you see it.
 
Mbow, you have to get some looser fitting undies. Because you've got a constant massive wedgie. Just take it easy, tone down the insults every post, and agree to disagree.

My track record has been very good around here. I've rarely missed on my player evaluations, and Zeke and I have been on the opposite ends of a lot of issues. He claimed that Blake was a first line talent that we were trading; I certainly thought differently. Kulemin was slammed by the general masses here when it was obvious he was a real good player (first line material on pace for 25 goals right now). And how many of you had your noses right up Simmonds' ass just a year ago, wanting to trade Kabby for him, a supposed first liner? So, I think I have more than enough cred to take an unpopular stance among people who are wrong just as often, if not more than, they are right. (Hear that, Rated? It's not ego. It's opinion. And unlike you, I guess, I won't change mine because a few loudmouths want me to and can't articulate one legit reason for it).

If you guys think that a 27th place team halfway into this season should keep a 30 yr old second pairing defender making a lot of money over a 24 year old second pairing defender who has had a very good start to his career, then it's you guys who have trouble seeing clearly, not me.
 
I don't even get that comparison. If the team is offered a deal that makes them better for Gunnar why reject it because you would rather trade Beauch? That doesn't make any sense. The only guys on the blueline that are untouchable are Schenn and Phaneuf. Other than that if a team offers a deal that makes the Leafs better, you make it. Who cares if it is Beauch, or Gunnar or Komi going the other way. That is the whole point of trading from a position of strength. There are lots of guys who you can move, and lots of guys that could be appealing to different teams, that can get you back the player you need. To look at it like you would only trade Beauch because Gunnar is younger is silly. If there is a deal to make that improves the club, make it.

And I don't really think the last guy left on the Raycroft bandwagon should be bragging about "wins and losses" in evaluating players.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
If you guys think that a 27th place team halfway into this season should keep a 30 yr old second pairing defender making a lot of money over a 24 year old second pairing defender who has had a very good start to his career, then it's you guys who have trouble seeing clearly, not me.
Click to expand...

This is the problem: Gunnarsson is not a second-pairing defenceman.
 
My track record has been very good around here. I've rarely missed on my player evaluations,
Click to expand...

yeah, whatever you say.

My track record has been very good around here. I've rarely missed on my player evaluations,
Click to expand...

Kulemin was slammed by the general masses here when it was obvious he was a real good player (first line material on pace for 25 goals right now)
Click to expand...

1) he isn't first line material
2) he was getting slammed for not playing to his potential, not for not having potential
3) most argued that he had the upside of a 25-ish goal guy. so this isn't a case of you being right and everybody else being wrong. if anything, you overrated him.



it's easy to win an argument when you set the terms of the opposing view. nobody argued, when the leafs traded blake, that he was a first liner.

how many of you had your noses right up Simmonds' ass just a year ago, wanting to trade Kabby for him, a supposed first liner?
Click to expand...

he was a name that was floated as a potential centrepiece in a package involving picks and prospects. but that's the thing -- trades like that are always risky. and ultimately if kaberle has no interest in re-signing or if burke has no interest in bringing him back (or they disagree on either term or dollar value on the contract) then, yeah, they should have made that trade if they could have.

in any event, i don't recall anybody suggesting simmonds was a bonafide first liner, just some people see 25-30 goal 60+ point potential. plus he brings some size and would add some much needed physicality up front. and chest thumping over a 22 year old who is on pace to replicate his 09-10 despite seeing a significant drop in ice time and quality of linemates, not because he has played himself down in the lineup but simply because of a 2-time 30 goal scorer returning from injury, is ridiculous.

I have more than enough cred to take an unpopular stance among people who are wrong just as often, if not more than, they are right.
Click to expand...

yes.. if you appeal to fabrications and/or revisionist history.

you are excellent at building strawmen arguments, though... i'll give you that.
 
Beauchemin is a stud dman, and will be a stud dman for years to come. He's on a great contract to boot. Losing Beauch blows a gigantic hole in our top-4 that none of our youngsters is ready to fill....and Komi certainly cannot.

Gunnarsson is a borderline bottom pair dman at this point, and is well down the depth charts even of our young defenseman talent, and is not even that young to boot.

people are obsessing about age far too much. Beauch is 30 years old, and will be in his prime for years to come. Gunnar is 24, and isn't a baby anymore. Beauch is a UFA in 2 years, Gunnar is a UFA in 3 years.
 
Beauchemin has evolved without playing with Pronger, into a Dman that is second only to Aulie and Kaberle. Aulie is way beyond expectations. THIS guy has a shot at being a Larry Robinson. Skate, kick the shit out anyone who gets in his way and carry the puck up the ice and get a slap shot on net.
 
I knew that Aulie was big and could skate... but, yeah, he does a great job of getting his shots through to the net, and his ability to anticipate the play and pinch accordingly was really, really surprising. He has the tools to be very, very good. If he could skate the puck out of pressure and then hit the quick transition passes like Schenn does then we're talking about a guy with legitimate #1 potential. He isn't as strong with the puck but that's fine... he's going to be a good one regardless.
 
I keep waiting for another Robinson, I hated Larry cause he played for the Habs, but he was amazing. I hope Aulie studie a lot of tape of LARRY.
 
leafman101 said:
I don't even get that comparison. If the team is offered a deal that makes them better for Gunnar why reject it because you would rather trade Beauch? That doesn't make any sense. The only guys on the blueline that are untouchable are Schenn and Phaneuf. Other than that if a team offers a deal that makes the Leafs better, you make it. Who cares if it is Beauch, or Gunnar or Komi going the other way. That is the whole point of trading from a position of strength. There are lots of guys who you can move, and lots of guys that could be appealing to different teams, that can get you back the player you need. To look at it like you would only trade Beauch because Gunnar is younger is silly. If there is a deal to make that improves the club, make it.

And I don't really think the last guy left on the Raycroft bandwagon should be bragging about "wins and losses" in evaluating players.
Click to expand...

And I really don't know why I bother posting here. It's truly just a source of aggravation. Nothing else, at this point. So I'm not gonna bother dignifying your last comment.

As for your initial comments, you clearly just don't get it. No one has yet talked about rejecting a deal if Gunnar is involved. The issue is whether, if given the choice, we should part with Gunnar or Beauch. That you didn't pick that up yet, after all this, further reinforces the waste of time it is getting into debates with guys like you, who spend their time trying to find a way to insult rather than comprehend the argument and respond.
 
msun30 said:
yeah, whatever you say.





1) he isn't first line material
2) he was getting slammed for not playing to his potential, not for not having potential
3) most argued that he had the upside of a 25-ish goal guy. so this isn't a case of you being right and everybody else being wrong. if anything, you overrated him.



it's easy to win an argument when you set the terms of the opposing view. nobody argued, when the leafs traded blake, that he was a first liner.



he was a name that was floated as a potential centrepiece in a package involving picks and prospects. but that's the thing -- trades like that are always risky. and ultimately if kaberle has no interest in re-signing or if burke has no interest in bringing him back (or they disagree on either term or dollar value on the contract) then, yeah, they should have made that trade if they could have.

in any event, i don't recall anybody suggesting simmonds was a bonafide first liner, just some people see 25-30 goal 60+ point potential. plus he brings some size and would add some much needed physicality up front. and chest thumping over a 22 year old who is on pace to replicate his 09-10 despite seeing a significant drop in ice time and quality of linemates, not because he has played himself down in the lineup but simply because of a 2-time 30 goal scorer returning from injury, is ridiculous.



yes.. if you appeal to fabrications and/or revisionist history.

you are excellent at building strawmen arguments, though... i'll give you that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's easy to wipe the slate clean and pretend the general consensus wasn't that Kulemin sucked. You certainly do appeal to fabrications and revisionist history, and quite often.

And yes, most certainly some people argued we traded a first liner in Jason Blake. Please don't try to tell me those lengthy and painfully obnoxious debates didn't actually take place.

And you're "misremembering" about Simmonds as well, of course. MANY here were saying that if we could trade Kaberle for Simmonds, one for one, that's be a STEAL for us and that LA would never even do it. Only now does it sound ludicrous to even contemplate such a joke of a suggestion. But last year, people like you were just as vehement about that as you are about this.

As for your closing insults, you can shove them up your ass, you total bullshitter.
 
zeke said:
Beauchemin is a stud dman, and will be a stud dman for years to come. He's on a great contract to boot. Losing Beauch blows a gigantic hole in our top-4 that none of our youngsters is ready to fill....and Komi certainly cannot.

Gunnarsson is a borderline bottom pair dman at this point, and is well down the depth charts even of our young defenseman talent, and is not even that young to boot.

people are obsessing about age far too much. Beauch is 30 years old, and will be in his prime for years to come. Gunnar is 24, and isn't a baby anymore. Beauch is a UFA in 2 years, Gunnar is a UFA in 3 years.
Click to expand...

This has to be a joke. A stud defenseman?

This is a guy who has the worst plus minus among our top 6. Kabs, Phaneuf, Schenn, and yes, even Komi and Gunnar, are better in that department. But let me guess, Beauch plays against the other teams' top lines. And none of the other five do, I suppose.

This is also a guy who, offensively, has less points than Kabs, Schenn, and Komi, and is only ahead of Phaneuf (by one) and Gunnar (by two) because those guys have been out of the lineup.

But somehow Beauch is the MVP of the blueline.

Sorry, it's just too much to listen to this stuff.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top