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Leafs' Prospect/Marlies Discussion Thread!

Wayward DP said:
how long was Eddie around before the disaster post-lockout year? less than five years, I imagine...
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We only had Eddie for three seasons total. Two of which were elite, then that disaster of a post-lockout season.

Before him, Cujo was only here for four seasons total (and it’s debatable how good he was on the whole).

Potvin, as previously discussed, was our guy before Cujo and gave us a five year stretch of average or better starting goaltending.

Then the 70’s & 80’s, aside from Jacques Plante of all people stopping in for a Belfour-esque late career stint of two elite & one bad season, seems to have been a never ending revolving door of absolutely horrific Leaf goaltending that was bad even for an era with infamously bad goaltending.

Which brings us back to Bower in the 60’s as our last long-term good starting goalie until Potvin.
 
Volcanologist said:
yeah the "goalies are bullshit" cope has been going on here for a long time now...coincidentally covering the period when we've had average at best goalies (ie since Belfour)
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Pretty sure we said it when Potvin suddenly turned to poop in his prime after being a stud.

Also when Cujo was threatening to leave (thank god he signed in Detroit) and we replaced him for less with old busted belfour.

And when we traded elite prospects/picks for stud young goalie talents like raycroft and toskala and bernier.

Also when we spent starter money on supposed dependable #1 goalies in Giguere and Andersen.
 
Meanwhile Nashville goes Vokoun -> Rinne -> Saros. Rangers Richter -> Lundqvist -> Shesterkin. Tampa Bishop -> Vasilevsky. Boston Thomas -> Rask -> Ullmark/Swayman.

We deserve to be one of the lucky few for once. Or maybe we don't after trading Rask.
 
zeke said:
Pretty sure we said it when Potvin suddenly turned to poop in his prime after being a stud.

Also when Cujo was threatening to leave (thank god he signed in Detroit) and we replaced him for less with old busted belfour.

And when we traded elite prospects/picks for stud young goalie talents like raycroft and toskala and bernier.

Also when we spent starter money on supposed dependable #1 goalies in Giguere and Andersen.
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Fred & Giggy aren’t really examples of us acquiring “supposed dependable #1 goalies”.

Fred had only been in the league for two-and-a-half seasons when we acquired him, and had only been the clear-cut starter for one of those seasons.

And Giggy was a washed-up old guy in the midst of his second straight bad season who the Ducks salary dumped to us because he’d lost his job to Jonas Hiller.
 
LeafGm said:
Fred & Giggy aren’t really examples of us acquiring “supposed dependable #1 goalies”.

Fred had only been in the league for two-and-a-half seasons when we acquired him, and had only been the clear-cut starter for one of those seasons.

And Giggy was a washed-up old guy in the midst of his second straight bad season who the Ducks salary dumped to us because he’d lost his job to Jonas Hiller.
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Giguere was a cup winning elite #1 goalie with a huge contract at age 29.

and then suddenly wasn't a viable starter by age 31.

goalies are bullshit.
 
zeke said:
and then suddenly wasn't a viable starter by age 31.
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Eh, he had a pretty serious hip surgery when he was 27 and has done interviews admitting that they were still kind of fucked after the surgery. He was still real gud for 2 more seasons but apparently the hips start causing groin issues after the surgery and he just fought through it for as long as he could. When he was healthy he was still a good goalie into his mid 30's. When he was hurting, he wasn't.

Father time (and uncle hip surgery) stays undefeated.

Elite goalies balance on a knifes edge for as long as they can. Lose even a little bit and there's not a whole lot of ways to adapt and stay elite.
 
He had 3yrs of fulltime starting from ages 24-26: 58gms/yr, .920.

Off for lockout at 27.

3yrs of fulltime starting from 28-30: 58gms/yr, .917, Cup.

Then unplayable bad contract at 31.
 
zeke said:
Off for lockout at 27.
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Hip surgery during lockout, admits that it was never right after the surgery and the groin went fucky after the surgery.

He was never unplayable bad though.

32: .907
33: .900
34: .919
35: .908
36: .913

Declined, yeah but the biggest difference is that he just couldn't handle workload after that. He talked about it in a bunch of interviews over the years. The hip surgery didn't make him feel any better in the end and he regrets getting it. The other hip that he didn't have worked on ended up no worse, but both were shit and led to chronic groin issues in his late 20's that he just fought through until he couldn't anymore.
 
29 ANA: 56gms, .918
30 ANA: 58gms, .922
----------
31 ANA: 46gms, .900
32 ANA: 20gms, .900
32 TOR: 15gms, .916
33 TOR: 26gms, .900
 
I didn't see this posted, but The Athletic had a 2 part series on which teams are the best drafters from 2007 - 2018 ( the next couple of years are too soon to tell category)

The Leafs come in 12th

1700845753545.png

When it comes to rebuilding, making your draft picks count is critical and the timeline chart above shows exactly why the Leafs have been able to position themselves as a contender. Not only did the team ramp up their draft capital every year from 2013-2016, they also came away as winners each time.

It sure helps that the team hit home runs with three straight top 10 picks forming a strong core trio of forwards. Those should be the easy picks, but it’s also where some teams can make the most costly mistakes at the draft. How different are the Leafs if they have Noah Hanifin and Nick Ritchie instead of Mitch Marner and William Nylander? When the Leafs pick high, they make it count.

It’s a stark contrast from Toronto’s dark days earlier in the decade where the team struggled to get any value whatsoever at the draft in a failed rebuild. The Leafs end up at 12th, though that masks the impressive turnaround from one half of the data set to the other. From 2007-2012 the Leafs were one of the worst drafting teams in the league (27th). In the six years since, they are the very best with 50 wins added above expected. Toronto was the only team to have an above-expected draft each year.

Best pick​

Mitch Marner, 4th pick in 2015
Value: 22.9 wins
Expected Value: 7.4 wins

Even in the top five, it’s easier to miss than some people believe. This very well could’ve been Noah Hanifin or Ivan Provorov — instead, it’s Marner, one of the game’s very best players who brought in the eighth most value of any player from this era.
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Following the trade from Kamloops to Saskatoon the other day, Maple Leafs prospect Fraser Minten now plays on a line with fellow Maple Leafs prospect Brandon Lisowsky.

Minten scored in his Saskatoon debut last night extending his point streak to 7 games, after recording 2 goals and 1 assist in his final game with Kamloops on Wednesday.
 
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