Leafs' Prospect/Marlies Discussion Thread!
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MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
A few points here:
- Johnsson put up 30 points in his final 34 games last season, so it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that we haven't seen this from him before.
- Since when did Zeke starting counting late November birthday's as this season's age? The season was 7 weeks old before Johnsson turned 23.
- After a fairly short adjustment period in north america (are we going to pretend that's not a thing anymore?) Johnsson went from one of the best players in the SHL to one of the best players in the AHL (76 points in his last 80 games)
- Why are we containing this to Leaf prospects/young players. Though there's obviously a massive list of players who have put up that type of performance in that age range in the AHL and became **** all, there's a solid list of guys who put up similar numbers and went on to be solid contributors. Tyler Johnson, Nyquist, Mat Perreault, Namestnikov, MacArthur, Etem, Boyes, etc
A few points here:
- Johnsson put up 30 points in his final 34 games last season, so it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that we haven't seen this from him before.
- Since when did Zeke starting counting late November birthday's as this season's age? The season was 7 weeks old before Johnsson turned 23.
- After a fairly short adjustment period in north america (are we going to pretend that's not a thing anymore?) Johnsson went from one of the best players in the SHL to one of the best players in the AHL (76 points in his last 80 games)
- Why are we containing this to Leaf prospects/young players. Though there's obviously a massive list of players who have put up that type of performance in that age range in the AHL and became **** all, there's a solid list of guys who put up similar numbers and went on to be solid contributors. Tyler Johnson, Nyquist, Mat Perreault, Namestnikov, MacArthur, Etem, Boyes, etc
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
Thing is, I'm pro Leivo and Brown. Most other teams in the league and they're receiving legitimate middle 6 wing assignments with power play time and likely putting up 40+ points a season. I don't think it's a bad group to put Johnsson in at all, though I wouldn't argue very hard with someone who thought he was the best of the 3.
Thing is, I'm pro Leivo and Brown. Most other teams in the league and they're receiving legitimate middle 6 wing assignments with power play time and likely putting up 40+ points a season. I don't think it's a bad group to put Johnsson in at all, though I wouldn't argue very hard with someone who thought he was the best of the 3.
zeke
Well-known member
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
1. comparing numbers from different leagues doesn't help much
2. i've been using birth year for age for a very long time now
3.I stuck with leafs comps because we're all very familiar with them and i didn't want to do any more work.
4.why do you guys think i'm biased against Johnsson that i would try to manipulate the numbers against him?
1. comparing numbers from different leagues doesn't help much
2. i've been using birth year for age for a very long time now
3.I stuck with leafs comps because we're all very familiar with them and i didn't want to do any more work.
4.why do you guys think i'm biased against Johnsson that i would try to manipulate the numbers against him?
zeke
Well-known member
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
do you think i made the claim without looking at the numbers?
and I'm not ignoring his SEL numbers. I just don't have handy comps for them. Why are you convinced his SEL numbers are that impressive? have you compared them to other SEL numbers?
do you think i made the claim without looking at the numbers?
and I'm not ignoring his SEL numbers. I just don't have handy comps for them. Why are you convinced his SEL numbers are that impressive? have you compared them to other SEL numbers?
BeLeafer
Well-known member
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
I looked up some equivalency research and SEL numbers are more difficult to obtain than AHL. So, if his numbers (especially goal scoring) are as good or better than those two at the same age in a better league, well, the conclusion is rather obvious, no?
I looked up some equivalency research and SEL numbers are more difficult to obtain than AHL. So, if his numbers (especially goal scoring) are as good or better than those two at the same age in a better league, well, the conclusion is rather obvious, no?
Iknowenuff
Banned
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
Except for Matthews, no prospect on the Leafs has had an easy ascent really, have they, up to the Leafs?
Remember what Kadri and Nylander had to go through? Brown had to tear up the AHL for a couple of years. I guess, Marner, except for going back to junior has had a relatively easy task getting here.
Babcock just really seems to like putting the organizations minor league brand on you, and in the case of Leivo, a lot of bench splinters in you as well.
I just want to see the guy get a real chance, not a Leivo chance.
Except for Matthews, no prospect on the Leafs has had an easy ascent really, have they, up to the Leafs?
Remember what Kadri and Nylander had to go through? Brown had to tear up the AHL for a couple of years. I guess, Marner, except for going back to junior has had a relatively easy task getting here.
Babcock just really seems to like putting the organizations minor league brand on you, and in the case of Leivo, a lot of bench splinters in you as well.
I just want to see the guy get a real chance, not a Leivo chance.
leafman101
Well-known member
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
U22 PPG SHL Since 2005-06
1. Elias Petterson (19) - 1.22
2. Mats Zuccarello (21) - 1.17
3. jakob Silverberg (21) - 1.10
4. Linus Omark (21) - 1.03
5. Carl Soderberg (21) - 0.97
6. Willy Nylander (18) - 0.95
7. David Rundblad (20) - 0.90
8. Oskar Linblom (20) - 0.90
9. Nicklas Backstrom (19) - 0.89
10. Andreas Johnson (21) - 0.85
11. Markus Krugger (19) - 0.82
12. Victor Arvisdsson (20) - 0.80
13. Calle Jarnkrovk (21) - 0.79
14. Oscar Lindberg (21) - 0.76
15. Jesper Fast (20) - 0.76
U22 Goals SHL Since 2005-06
1. Jakob Silfverberg (21) - 24
2. Patrick Hornqvist (19) - 23
3. Linus Olmark (21) - 23
4. Mats Zuccarello (21) -23
5. Oskar Lindblom (20) - 22
6. Andreas Johnson (20) - 22
7. Andreas Johnson (21) - 19
8. Mattais Janmark (21) -18
9. Jesper Fast (20) - 18
10. Jakob Silfverberg (20) -18
Lots of NHLers on those lists.
U22 PPG SHL Since 2005-06
1. Elias Petterson (19) - 1.22
2. Mats Zuccarello (21) - 1.17
3. jakob Silverberg (21) - 1.10
4. Linus Omark (21) - 1.03
5. Carl Soderberg (21) - 0.97
6. Willy Nylander (18) - 0.95
7. David Rundblad (20) - 0.90
8. Oskar Linblom (20) - 0.90
9. Nicklas Backstrom (19) - 0.89
10. Andreas Johnson (21) - 0.85
11. Markus Krugger (19) - 0.82
12. Victor Arvisdsson (20) - 0.80
13. Calle Jarnkrovk (21) - 0.79
14. Oscar Lindberg (21) - 0.76
15. Jesper Fast (20) - 0.76
U22 Goals SHL Since 2005-06
1. Jakob Silfverberg (21) - 24
2. Patrick Hornqvist (19) - 23
3. Linus Olmark (21) - 23
4. Mats Zuccarello (21) -23
5. Oskar Lindblom (20) - 22
6. Andreas Johnson (20) - 22
7. Andreas Johnson (21) - 19
8. Mattais Janmark (21) -18
9. Jesper Fast (20) - 18
10. Jakob Silfverberg (20) -18
Lots of NHLers on those lists.
leafman101
Well-known member
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
In that case over his last 81 AHL games he has 76 points.
Johnson has some key things working for him. He has the skating and an NHL shot. Plus he has earned that work ethic rep that little guys who succeed need to succeed. I don't see any reason to think he can't play in the NHL, other than he is small. At the very least he has earned a shot.
In that case over his last 81 AHL games he has 76 points.
Johnson has some key things working for him. He has the skating and an NHL shot. Plus he has earned that work ethic rep that little guys who succeed need to succeed. I don't see any reason to think he can't play in the NHL, other than he is small. At the very least he has earned a shot.
zeke
Well-known member
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
whittled it down to 21yr olds.
you guys shouldn't take this as me hating johnsson. after all you know i like leivo and leipsic.
i'm just pointing out that moving him ahead of these types on the depth charts in your head is probably not warranted.
whittled it down to 21yr olds.
you guys shouldn't take this as me hating johnsson. after all you know i like leivo and leipsic.
i'm just pointing out that moving him ahead of these types on the depth charts in your head is probably not warranted.
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
Don't think his SHL and AHL pedigree is much different than Arvidsson's. Only difference is Arvy was thrown in the nhl early because of the preds lack of depth. There isn't a definite answer here. People are wrong to assume he'll be as good as Arvy or better than brown Leivo. But there is a pretty good chance he'll be better than the leafs guys. Arvy isn't out of the question.
The guy is good. And the consistent improvement from one year to the next is a terrific sign
Don't think his SHL and AHL pedigree is much different than Arvidsson's. Only difference is Arvy was thrown in the nhl early because of the preds lack of depth. There isn't a definite answer here. People are wrong to assume he'll be as good as Arvy or better than brown Leivo. But there is a pretty good chance he'll be better than the leafs guys. Arvy isn't out of the question.
The guy is good. And the consistent improvement from one year to the next is a terrific sign
leafman101
Well-known member
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
@b1rky
Andreas Johnsson has 27 pts in his last 19 games.
His season-long pace (50 pts in 50 GP) projects as a 39 pt NHL season (82 games). But at his current pace, it's closer to 55 pts. It's been an impressive run, and he should probably be in the NHL
@b1rky
Andreas Johnsson has 27 pts in his last 19 games.
His season-long pace (50 pts in 50 GP) projects as a 39 pt NHL season (82 games). But at his current pace, it's closer to 55 pts. It's been an impressive run, and he should probably be in the NHL
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
Yep. It's hard to take anyone currently on the roster out though. He's in the mix for a top 9 spot next year though imo, and definitely should make the roster even if it's not as a top 9.
Yep. It's hard to take anyone currently on the roster out though. He's in the mix for a top 9 spot next year though imo, and definitely should make the roster even if it's not as a top 9.
LeafGm
Well-known member
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
His time will come next fall in training camp, or this spring if the Leafs go deep in the playoffs and have some top-9 injuries along the way.
Yeah, as much as I like Johnsson, I can't point out anyone I'd want to take off the current roster for him.
His time will come next fall in training camp, or this spring if the Leafs go deep in the playoffs and have some top-9 injuries along the way.
leafman101
Well-known member
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
yep. 3 years ago we would have been all #freejohnsson months ago though.
Nice spot to be in.
yep. 3 years ago we would have been all #freejohnsson months ago though.
Nice spot to be in.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!
The tricky part next year is that 3C spot. I don't know if you can take Nylander off of Matthews wing (without inserting Marner...who seems to be breaking out next to Kadri so why change?) if you're going to leave Hyman there (which you shouldn't...but Babcock will). If you decide to give Willy the C duty, I think we should try to look like this:
XXXXXX-Matthews-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Hyman-Nylander-Brown
Johnsson-XXXXXX-Leivo
With a short term veteran contract someone doesn't want anymore (Zetterberg, Hoffman if the price is right,MaxPac ditto), or a short term veteran UFA brought in on Matthews left side (Perron, Vanek, Neal, Nash, JVR if he strikes out on the market)
If we keep Willy on Matthews wing (likely), we're going to need to bring in a centre (JT, Thornton, Stastny, Filppula, Bozak) for the 3C (depending on who it is of course...could easily slot in over Kadri and push that line down), on top of the 4C we're already really likely to need (those are easy though)
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Kapanen-XXXXX-Brown
Johnsson-XXXXX-Leivo
Would be nice if Babs considered swapping Kappy and Hyman though.
The tricky part next year is that 3C spot. I don't know if you can take Nylander off of Matthews wing (without inserting Marner...who seems to be breaking out next to Kadri so why change?) if you're going to leave Hyman there (which you shouldn't...but Babcock will). If you decide to give Willy the C duty, I think we should try to look like this:
XXXXXX-Matthews-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Hyman-Nylander-Brown
Johnsson-XXXXXX-Leivo
With a short term veteran contract someone doesn't want anymore (Zetterberg, Hoffman if the price is right,MaxPac ditto), or a short term veteran UFA brought in on Matthews left side (Perron, Vanek, Neal, Nash, JVR if he strikes out on the market)
If we keep Willy on Matthews wing (likely), we're going to need to bring in a centre (JT, Thornton, Stastny, Filppula, Bozak) for the 3C (depending on who it is of course...could easily slot in over Kadri and push that line down), on top of the 4C we're already really likely to need (those are easy though)
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Kapanen-XXXXX-Brown
Johnsson-XXXXX-Leivo
Would be nice if Babs considered swapping Kappy and Hyman though.