• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

New Canadian Politics Thread

zeke said:
does she want oil transported by train instead?
Click to expand...

no, she wants us to stop extracting fossil fuels. her idealism sometimes interferes with her pragmatism, in my opinion.

but she is adamant that we should not be expanding the oil sands, and should instead be looking for ways to reduce our use of non-renewable energy.
 
UWHabs said:
Yeah, that's what I don't get from the environmental groups. Well, I mean, I understand from them, but you have to know that we're not just going to turn off the taps of the oilsands overnight. Yes, we should dial it down over time so that we can eventually shut it off, but in the meantime, how do you want it shipped? The government should come out with more of a "we'll build these pipelines, but that's it. We will never build another, as we expect the oil industry to be finished in 20-40 years."
Click to expand...

Trudeau hinted at that once before, the west, Alberta in particular lost its mind.
 
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau sparked immediate anger among Alberta politicians on Friday by suggesting Canada should "phase out" the oilsands.

Speaking at a town hall in Peterborough, Ont., Trudeau was asked about his government's approval of pipelines and his commitment to the environment.

"You can't make a choice between what's good for the environment and what's good for the economy," Trudeau said. "We can't shut down the oilsands tomorrow. We need to phase them out. We need to manage the transition off of our dependence on fossil fuels.

"That is going to take time. And in the meantime, we have to manage that transition."

In Alberta, both the Wildrose Party and the Progressive Conservatives were quick to condemn the statement.

"I am sick and tired of people attacking our oilsands," Wildrose Leader Brian Jean told CBC. "I truly would suggest that Mr. Trudeau keep his comments to himself when he doesn't know what he's talking about.

"We certainly don't need out-of-touch, federal politicians sounding like Jane Fonda on this topic."

Jean said the oilsands are an economic engine that powers both Alberta and Canada.

"The economic benefits of the oilsands are immeasurable," Jean, who represents Fort McMurray, said earlier in the day in a statement. "If Mr. Trudeau wants to shut down Alberta's oilsands, and my hometown, let him be warned: he'll have to go through me and four million Albertans first."

In a tweet, PC leadership candidate Jason Kenney asked if Trudeau would rather "hand over all global oil production to Saudi [Arabia], Iran [and] Qatar.

"If we end 'dependence on fossil fuels,'" Kenney asked in another tweet, "how will Justin Trudeau fly to private Caribbean islands? Planes & helicopters fuelled by pixie dust?"
Click to expand...
Ten days later

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-about-phasing-out-oil-sands/article33748712/

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he misspoke earlier this month when he told an audience in Peterborough, Ont., that Alberta's oil sands must be phased out.

Speaking in Calgary on Tuesday as he wrapped up a two-day cabinet retreat, Mr. Trudeau addressed comments that have triggered significant controversy in Alberta.

"I misspoke. I said something the way I shouldn't have said it," he explained.

The Prime Minister has been under fire from critics for saying "we need to phase them out," in reference to Alberta's oil sands.

Mr. Trudeau did not provide a timeline then, but said Tuesday that in about 100 years, fossil fuels will no longer be needed for fuel or energy. He then attacked his critics in the federal Conservative Party, arguing that his Liberal government is doing more for Albertans than they did when in government.

"I am proud of the fact that I've been able to do a few things that the previous government was unable to do, including approving two significant pipelines and possibly having Keystone XL move forward as well in the coming years," he said, speaking on the same day that U.S. President Donald Trump announced his government's support for the Keystone pipeline proposal.
Click to expand...
 
LeafGm said:
Yep. And on the flip-side of the coin, I suspect that oil industry workers and Albertans in general also care a whole lot about it.

So on the upside for Trudeau, I'd bet that the percentage of oil workers and Albertans who'd be willing to vote for him even if he did get a pipeline built would be pretty minuscule.

On the down-side, it'll be tough on all sides if Trudeau goes into the next election having spent $4.5B buying a pipeline that can't be built.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my evidence is anecdotal, but as I'm still hip deep in alberta redneck facebook friends from my time in the oil industry out here, I'm decently in touch with the general sentiment among that breed. Trudeau could have personally built a pipeline with his own hands that supported double the production of the entire industry, securing the future growth of the industry for decades, landed supply contracts at Brent/WTI prices (instead of the Alberta Select price we get now) and still had the oil industry workers shit all over him.

It's cultural at this point, every bit as much as living in the deep south means you're probably a Republican. The demographics started to shift when the industry was booming and people from all over were moving to Alberta. Some of the urban ridings have shifted and will continue to be battleground ridings where the NDP or Libs have a shot, but Alberta will remain a Conservative stronghold regardless of what goes on.
 
Worst part is, he's not wrong. It's just an unpopular opinion in Alberta. Alberta has put all of their eggs, economically & culturally in an industry that technology is going to make obsolete sooner or later. I'm getting out of here before the electric car panic sets in a few years from now.
 
MindzEye said:
Worst part is, he's not wrong. It's just an unpopular opinion in Alberta. Alberta has put all of their eggs, economically & culturally in an industry that technology is going to make obsolete sooner or later. I'm getting out of here before the electric car panic sets in a few years from now.
Click to expand...

He's not wrong, but alberta becomes a have not province once oil goes bust. Salaries across the board are too high, not much else in terms of natural resources, not a huge manufacturing base, its a uncomfortable thought for many.
 
Altair said:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-trans-mountain-federal-court-appeals-1.4804495

Looks like the supreme court just killed off the trans mountain pipeline.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-trans-mountain-federal-court-appeals-1.4804495



Trudeau's year could hardly get any worst.

Keystone pipeline is facing delays as well.
Click to expand...

It was the Federal Court of Appeal so there can be an appeal to SCC. FCA also gave an out that we could negotiate more with natives etc
 
Altair said:
He's not wrong, but alberta becomes a have not province once oil goes bust. Salaries across the board are too high, not much else in terms of natural resources, not a huge manufacturing base, its a uncomfortable thought for many.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and I'd have some sympathy if 60% or more of the province didn't continue supporting parties that have zero interest in having the conversation of what to do after the party stops. After working in the industry for nearly a decade, I can say that I didn't run into too many people who had any sort of plan for what to do when the music stops playing. There was a test run a few years ago when oil prices catered and very few people reacted well at all. The most coherent plan I've heard has come from the Newfies funny enough. The plan is basically "I'm going to put the fifth wheel on the back of the truck and **** off home to Newfoundland and retire". Those are the benefits of making 150K for years and being from a place where 100K can still buy you a nice house I guess.

My "old stock" Alberta buddies just think this is the way the world works and that "there will always be oil". Try explaining to them that yeah, oil will continue having it's uses even after every car on the planet is electric, but that at 50 mbpd instead of 90+, the price will have cratered too low for Alberta oil to be profitable and it will be the Saudi's fighting to market share until they bleed their desert dry.

The political left has been talking about economic diversification out here since I moved to Alberta in 07-08. The majority just doesn't want to listen.
 
MindzEye said:
Yeah, and I'd have some sympathy if 60% or more of the province didn't continue supporting parties that have zero interest in having the conversation of what to do after the party stops. After working in the industry for nearly a decade, I can say that I didn't run into too many people who had any sort of plan for what to do when the music stops playing. There was a test run a few years ago when oil prices catered and very few people reacted well at all. The most coherent plan I've heard has come from the Newfies funny enough. The plan is basically "I'm going to put the fifth wheel on the back of the truck and **** off home to Newfoundland and retire". Those are the benefits of making 150K for years and being from a place where 100K can still buy you a nice house I guess.

My "old stock" Alberta buddies just think this is the way the world works and that "there will always be oil". Try explaining to them that yeah, oil will continue having it's uses even after every car on the planet is electric, but that at 50 mbpd instead of 90+, the price will have cratered too low for Alberta oil to be profitable and it will be the Saudi's fighting to market share until they bleed their desert dry.

The political left has been talking about economic diversification out here since I moved to Alberta in 07-08. The majority just doesn't want to listen.
Click to expand...

the entire province is built around the oil industry. There is no way efficient way to move to something else. Honestly, if I were in charge of Alberta, I would be banking as much of that oil money as I could for then the hard times come. The window of opportunity for making ss much money as possible is the next 20 years or so, which is why I get the angst about any pipeline delays.

Norway is set for a couple of generations because of the oil wealth they have stashed away, Alberta needs something like that for when the party is over.
 
Altair said:
the entire province is built around the oil industry. There is no way efficient way to move to something else. Honestly, if I were in charge of Alberta, I would be banking as much of that oil money as I could for then the hard times come. The window of opportunity for making ss much money as possible is the next 20 years or so, which is why I get the angst about any pipeline delays.

Norway is set for a couple of generations because of the oil wealth they have stashed away, Alberta needs something like that for when the party is over.
Click to expand...

Didn't they do that with the Heritage Fund and it just disappeared?

It is the only province with no provincial sales tax, but no government there has the stones to impose one.
 
Altair said:
the entire province is built around the oil industry. There is no way efficient way to move to something else.
Click to expand...

Over a short "shit, shit, shit" time frame, I agree. With a decades long lead time, I vehemently disagree.

Honestly, if I were in charge of Alberta, I would be banking as much of that oil money as I could for then the hard times come. The window of opportunity for making ss much money as possible is the next 20 years or so, which is why I get the angst about any pipeline delays.

Norway is set for a couple of generations because of the oil wealth they have stashed away, Alberta needs something like that for when the party is over.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it didn't happen and it's not projected to happen. Alberta is going to wake up to a hell of a hangover at some point in the next 20 years. The question for me is whether they blame the right people or the wrong people.
 
MindzEye said:
Over a short "shit, shit, shit" time frame, I agree. With a decades long lead time, I vehemently disagree.



Yeah, it didn't happen and it's not projected to happen. Alberta is going to wake up to a hell of a hangover at some point in the next 20 years. The question for me is whether they blame the right people or the wrong people.
Click to expand...

The whole country will share in the hangover. A lot of those oil dollars help support the Feds and transfer payments to other provinces.
 
Why am I entirely unsurprised by this? Trump apparently told some Bloomberg reporters yesterday in "off the record" remarks that he hasn't been negotiating with Canada in good faith, and doesn't intend to make any deal with Canada that isn't "totally on our terms".

These "off the record" remarks somehow made their way to the Toronto Star, and they've run a story on them this morning.

Here's a link to the story, and quotes below:

High-stakes trade negotiations between Canada and the U.S. were dramatically upended on Friday morning by inflammatory secret remarks from President Donald Trump, after the remarks were obtained by the Toronto Star.

In remarks Trump wanted to be “off the record,” Trump told Bloomberg News reporters on Thursday, according to a source, that he is not making any compromises at all in the talks with Canada — but that he cannot say this publicly because “it’s going to be so insulting they’re not going to be able to make a deal.”

“Here’s the problem. If I say no — the answer’s no. If I say no, then you’re going to put that, and it’s going to be so insulting they’re not going to be able to make a deal...I can’t kill these people,” he said of the Canadian government.

In another remark he did not want published, Trump said, according to the source, that the possible deal with Canada would be “totally on our terms.” He suggested he was scaring the Canadians into submission by repeatedly threatening to impose tariffs.

“Off the record, Canada’s working their ass off. And every time we have a problem with a point, I just put up a picture of a Chevrolet Impala,” Trump said, according to the source. The Impala is produced at the General Motors plant in Oshawa, Ontario.

Trump made the remarks in an Oval Office interview with Bloomberg. He deemed them off the record, and Bloomberg accepted his request not to reveal them.

But the Star is not bound by any promises Bloomberg made to Trump. And the remarks immediately became a factor in the negotiations: Trudeau’s officials, who saw them as evidence for their previous suspicions that Trump’s team had not been bargaining in good faith, raised them at the beginning of a meeting with their U.S. counterparts on Friday morning.

The Star was not able to independently confirm the remarks with 100 per cent certainty, but the Canadian government is confident they are accurate. Bloomberg editor-in-chief John Micklethwait, who was one of the journalists in the room, did not dispute their authenticity.

...

On the record, Trump told Bloomberg that a deal was “close,” that it could happen by Friday but might take longer, and that Canada ultimately has “no choice” but to make a deal. Bloomberg quoted these remarks.

But then he said, “Off the record: totally on our terms. Totally.”

“Again off the record, they came knocking on our doors last night. ‘Let’s make a deal. Please,’” he said.
Click to expand...
 
I must say, I haven't seen a politician so incapable of reading the public mood since harper and the barbaric cultural practices hotline.

Alberta is enraged, pissed off, feeling like they will never get a pipeline done and Notley comes out last night, acting all piss and vinegar, and I'm ready for her to drop the gauntlet.

So she declares that Alberta is pulling out to the federal climate plan. I'm thinking damn, yet another province Trudeau has to force a carbon tax on.

But then a reporter asks what that does now, and Notley awkwardly admits it wouldn't even come in effect for 2 years. But it sends a strong message she says.

Another reporter asks her why not cut oil shipments east and west as they passed the legislation to do. She says she wont do that right now.

So in short, to placate a restless populace, you declare that you will be taking action against the federal government that they will only notice in 2 years time. That will learn them.

That sound I hear last night was a Kenney landslide come next Alberta election.

Least she could have done was repeal the Carbon tax, and suspend any and all environmental regulations her government had put in place until the Transmountain was approved. Instead she waved her fist in the air, spoke some angry words, and did....nothing.
 
Well, looks like the Star's story about Trump's comments to Bloomberg has been confirmed:


wSWEyEB.png
 
Reporting the words that came out of my mouth = dishonest reporting

It truly is incredible that 40% of the US electorate would follow this twat off of a cliff and believe every lie he tells them as the plummeted to their deaths.

Objective reality will only suffer subjective reality for so long, the question is when, and how severe the reframing is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top