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New Canadian Politics Thread

but oh man if he actually has just proposed a deal that is significantly worse even only in some areas, following on the heels of his increasingly embarassing NK disaster, he might actually start taking some real heat even from his own.
 
zeke said:
but oh man if he actually has just proposed a deal that is significantly worse even only in some areas, following on the heels of his increasingly embarassing NK disaster, he might actually start taking some real heat even from his own.
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honestly I'm at a complete loss as to what he could to turn off his base.

I don't think a watered down NAFTA would do it, cause I think the people who vehemently support him actually believe the things he says about the mainstream media, so to the extent the new deal is bad, they would be totally unaware.
 
Wayward DP said:
honestly I'm at a complete loss as to what he could to turn off his base.
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there is a segment of his base that actually are serious hard working people that need economic relief (not the pampered a-holes that show up at his rallies). people that don't need to trust trump's word for it - but can actually look at the bottom line of themselves and their industries.

the farmers are already taking it on the chin with the tarriffs. if he compounds it by hurting other blue collar workers and companies as well, they might not turn against him, but they won't bother voting for him again.
 
zeke said:
there is a segment of his base that actually are serious hard working people that need economic relief (not the pampered a-holes that show up at his rallies). people that don't need to trust trump's word for it - but can actually look at the bottom line of themselves and their industries.

the farmers are already taking it on the chin with the tarriffs. if he compounds it by hurting other blue collar workers and companies as well, they might not turn against him, but they won't bother voting for him again.
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Trudeau wont sign a worst deal, no way.

In the meantime Canada is going to take it on the chin
 
Altair said:
Trudeau wont sign a worst deal, no way.

In the meantime Canada is going to take it on the chin
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Trudeau's in a tough spot. While I think most people are happy with him standing up to Trump, it's almost gotten to the point where signing any deal is going to feel like having given in to him. But on the other hand, not signing a deal is even worse. How they navigate that is going to be massive. Because you also know that as soon as they sign something, if they come out and say it's a good deal for Canada, the diaper-in-chief will probably complain on twitter immediately.
 
UWHabs said:
Trudeau's in a tough spot. While I think most people are happy with him standing up to Trump, it's almost gotten to the point where signing any deal is going to feel like having given in to him. But on the other hand, not signing a deal is even worse. How they navigate that is going to be massive. Because you also know that as soon as they sign something, if they come out and say it's a good deal for Canada, the diaper-in-chief will probably complain on twitter immediately.
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Trudeau needs to explain, in detail, how any worse deal would screw over Canada, and how it would screw over Canada. He then needs to explain how the consequences of rejecting that worst deal are going to negatively effect Canada, and how it may lead to short term pain, but long term, if they get a better deal that would put Canada in a much better place.

Then he needs to open the pocketbook and toss billions at the specific industries Trump is going to take aim at, in this case, the Auto sector.

Then, if he has the balls, he needs to go for the jugular.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/seco...-drug-patents-intellectual-property-1.4708630

The U.S. holds more pharmaceutical patents and other intellectual property licences than any other country. But that strength could become a vulnerability if Canada took action to suspend American patents on Canadian soil. Canadian companies would then be able to produce those drugs.
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The power is not so much in the action, but in the threat: To make the pharmaceutical lobby nervous enough to pressure the U.S. administration to resolve the current trade dispute with Canada.

"That industry is the single most powerful lobby in Washington," said Attaran."There is nothing that industry is more afraid of losing than control of their patents."
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UWHabs said:
Trudeau's in a tough spot. While I think most people are happy with him standing up to Trump, it's almost gotten to the point where signing any deal is going to feel like having given in to him. But on the other hand, not signing a deal is even worse. How they navigate that is going to be massive. Because you also know that as soon as they sign something, if they come out and say it's a good deal for Canada, the diaper-in-chief will probably complain on twitter immediately.
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Agree generally, particularly with the bolded.

I really don't know what cards Trudeau has to play here, or how he can play them best.

I mean, it's clear the Americans are trying to use pressure and bully tactics to exact concessions from Canada. And apparently Lighthizer is not a fan of Freeland's. But, on the other hand, Trump is an imbecilic dotard who just needs a talking point he can spout off on, so we could actually get a decent deal.

I kinda predict something like what happened with CETA, at least with respect to supply management. Canada carves out a small amount (5-10%) of quota for US imports, so Trump can say, "look, the 300% tariffs are eliminated, what a great deal". Dairy farmers get paid a 'please vote for us' bribe, and everyone continues on more or less as normal. The CETA exception was something like 3% of the total market?

That seems to be the dotard's big sticking point, and it's easy enough to throw him a bone here without actually doing much of substance (although dairy farmers would likely argue this point). And it's clear he gives zero ****s about the actual details or nitty gritty of any possible agreement.

Of course, the Americans may be so fed up with our negotiators that they basically give them a take it or leave it ultimatum. They may think the threat of auto tariffs is enough to make Canada cave.

One thing I'm pretty confident about is that this will not be concluded by Friday, and will not be submitted to Congress before the mid-terms. And then Trump will go ahead and blame Canada for that. This whole thing reeks of Trump trying to use Mexico as leverage to keep us in line. And to be honest, I don't see Trudeau caving.
 
zeke said:
but oh man if he actually has just proposed a deal that is significantly worse even only in some areas, following on the heels of his increasingly embarassing NK disaster, he might actually start taking some real heat even from his own.
Click to expand...

are you new?
 
zeke said:
there is a segment of his base that actually are serious hard working people that need economic relief (not the pampered a-holes that show up at his rallies). people that don't need to trust trump's word for it - but can actually look at the bottom line of themselves and their industries.

the farmers are already taking it on the chin with the tarriffs. if he compounds it by hurting other blue collar workers and companies as well, they might not turn against him, but they won't bother voting for him again.
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1. fake news
2. immigrants
3. ????
4. profit
 
Wayward DP said:
Agree generally, particularly with the bolded.

I really don't know what cards Trudeau has to play here, or how he can play them best.

I mean, it's clear the Americans are trying to use pressure and bully tactics to exact concessions from Canada. And apparently Lighthizer is not a fan of Freeland's. But, on the other hand, Trump is an imbecilic dotard who just needs a talking point he can spout off on, so we could actually get a decent deal.

I kinda predict something like what happened with CETA, at least with respect to supply management. Canada carves out a small amount (5-10%) of quota for US imports, so Trump can say, "look, the 300% tariffs are eliminated, what a great deal". Dairy farmers get paid a 'please vote for us' bribe, and everyone continues on more or less as normal. The CETA exception was something like 3% of the total market?

That seems to be the dotard's big sticking point, and it's easy enough to throw him a bone here without actually doing much of substance (although dairy farmers would likely argue this point). And it's clear he gives zero ****s about the actual details or nitty gritty of any possible agreement.

Of course, the Americans may be so fed up with our negotiators that they basically give them a take it or leave it ultimatum. They may think the threat of auto tariffs is enough to make Canada cave.

One thing I'm pretty confident about is that this will not be concluded by Friday, and will not be submitted to Congress before the mid-terms. And then Trump will go ahead and blame Canada for that. This whole thing reeks of Trump trying to use Mexico as leverage to keep us in line. And to be honest, I don't see Trudeau caving.
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Trudeau, due to his own missteps and lousy messaging, has more or less legal weed and the economy doing well to stand on.

Trump carves the heart out of the Canadian Auto industry and slams the brakes on the Ontario economy, I'm not sure that Trudeau is going to be sitting pretty come next October.
 
Altair said:
Trudeau, due to his own missteps and lousy messaging, has more or less legal weed and the economy doing well to stand on.

Trump carves the heart out of the Canadian Auto industry and slams the brakes on the Ontario economy, I'm not sure that Trudeau is going to be sitting pretty come next October.
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There is a large segment of the population that Trudeau will win points with by refusing to be bullied by the Americans.

No deal is better than a bad one. And auto tariffs will hurt Trump voters, make no mistake


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Wayward DP said:
There is a large segment of the population that Trudeau will win points with by refusing to be bullied by the Americans.

No deal is better than a bad one. And auto tariffs will hurt Trump voters, make no mistake


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Every tariff to date has hurt Trump voters, to date, those ****ers wont budge in their support for him. Every counter tariff has hurt trump voters, those ****ers still wont budge in their support.

And the American Economy continues to tick along just fine, tariffs or no tariffs, which is all american voters seem to be fixated on.
 
Altair said:
Every tariff to date has hurt Trump voters, to date, those ****ers wont budge in their support for him. Every counter tariff has hurt trump voters, those ****ers still wont budge in their support.

And the American Economy continues to tick along just fine, tariffs or no tariffs, which is all american voters seem to be fixated on.
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Yeah, even if the US goes crazy on auto tariffs, they'll survive better than we can.

My only hope is that if/when we do sign a deal, the people doing the negotiating have the "real" agreement done behind the scenes that they either don't worry about telling Donald about, or that they have secretly agreed to bring into practice once Trump is gone and a rational human being is in the White House.
 
UWHabs said:
Trudeau's in a tough spot. While I think most people are happy with him standing up to Trump, it's almost gotten to the point where signing any deal is going to feel like having given in to him. But on the other hand, not signing a deal is even worse. How they navigate that is going to be massive. Because you also know that as soon as they sign something, if they come out and say it's a good deal for Canada, the diaper-in-chief will probably complain on twitter immediately.
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If I were Trudeau, I would say that any deal is subject to Parliament and declare a free vote. Make Bucky and his boys vote for it or against it.
 
So PC brand buck-a-beer lasted a whole 1 week. Still 2 beer brands going with it for now. Truly a momentous policy by Doug.
 
worm said:
trying to regulate the cost of a non essential product sounds communist
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I mean, personally I don't really care to have a minimum price, so I actually don't mind this, in theory. If you can make and sell a beer for 1$, then all the power to you. But still nice to see it blow up in his face.
 
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