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New Canadian Politics Thread

LeafGm said:
The NDP & Liberals both deserve a lot of blame.

Howarth is a lacklustre & uninspiring leader who's already had almost a decade at the helm of that party, and before the last election had already had two kicks at the can as the NDP leader in general elections. In those elections, she was also going up against a deeply unpopular incumbent Liberal government, and PC leaders (Tory & Hudak) who raised shooting themselves in the foot into an art form.

Yet all she managed to do was win 17 seats in their first election, and then bump that up to 21 seats after forcing the 2014 election, with the side-effect that the NDP lost the balance of power they'd held in what was previously a minority parliament, and handed a majority government back to Wynne and the Liberals.

As for the Liberals, who really cares that Wynne was popular inside the party? It was screamingly obvious that outside of the Ontario Liberal Party bubble, the only way they had the slightest chance in the 2018 election was to replace Wynne and the senior leadership of the party with people who had no connection to the Wynne/McGuinty years.

Instead, out of hubris, they went ahead with the old crew and predictably got annihilated to below official party status at the polls, and Ontario got saddled with Premier Doug Ford.
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It was either hubris or a massive lack of self awareness. In the end though, they had to have known the end was near with Wynne, and replaced her and everyone associated with McGuinty. Baring that, during the election, when they really must have known, they should have told their supporters to not vote for them, for the good of the Province. When it comes down to it, they are ideologically closer to the NDP than the Conservatives, and for the good of their priorities and what they did accomplish, the NDP would preserve more of it than the PCs would. internally, their polling probably showed how in tough the NDP were, and would need every left leaning voter they could find, if only to hold the PCs to a minority government.

Instead they doubled down and told their voters that they weren`t going to win and they should vote for the Liberals to try and get a minority government. In the end, the difference in the popular vote was 400 thousand between the NDP and the PCs, with 1.1 voters, 1 in 5, voting liberal. The liberals doubled down on the left vote split, in a vain attempt to save their party, allowing Ford to get a 62 percent of the seats with 40 percent of the popular vote.

Ford is a disaster in the making, people don`t like him and his policies, but the reason he`s in the position he`s in is because the Liberal Party did everything wrong, from before the election was even called to the final days of it, either because of hubris or a massive lack of self awareness.
 
The only reason I mention that she was more popular in the party is that that's really the only way they could have ousted her. There were only 2 ways she wasn't going to be leader going into the election - revolt within the party to kick her out, or she steps down. So yeah, ideally they should have pitched her out before, but we're not Australia - we seem to prefer waiting to lose before pushing our leaders out.

And in some ways, you can't fault the Libs for keep wanting people to vote for them. It makes a massive difference in funding to get to official party status, plus every vote means more money to the party itself too. So yeah, idealogically the Libs and NDP were virtually identical, but if the Libs had come out and said, "oops, we suck, please vote NDP to keep Ford out", the Libs would have won 0 seats and probably lost a whole bunch more votes too. Yeah, perhaps it would be a better thing for the province, but not sure it would realistically be possible to come back from a goose egg, especially if the NDP actually won the election. And I mean, it's very hard to have a minority government if the Liberals are pulling in 0 seats themselves due to math.

In the end, for the Liberals, it's probably not as bad really as it could be. Yes, getting one extra seat for official party status would definitely have been nice, but as it stands, you probably give the NDP enough fun being opposition that they'll run Horwath stupidly again in the next election, and you fall low enough as a party that you can gut it and start fresh. Sucks for the province to have Ford, but as long as he keeps caring more about Toronto and municipal politics than the province, he may not be as bad as we think.
 
Cynthia Mulligan @CityCynthia
3m
Premier Doug Ford announcing the end of the Drive Clean Program. As of April 1 2019 drivers will no longer have to get emission testing, new program will focus on big trucks . #onpoli


**** everything.
 
zeke said:
Cynthia Mulligan @CityCynthia
3m
Premier Doug Ford announcing the end of the Drive Clean Program. As of April 1 2019 drivers will no longer have to get emission testing, new program will focus on big trucks . #onpoli


**** everything.
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Balanced out by his policy to allow as many pot shops as people want, as long as they are not near schools.

The Alberta model I think, much more sense than the government running pot shops.

All he needs to do now is get rid of the LCBO and I'll consider his first year a success.
 
Altair said:
Balanced out by his policy to allow as many pot shops as people want, as long as they are not near schools.

The Alberta model I think, much more sense than the government running pot shops.

All he needs to do now is get rid of the LCBO and I'll consider his first year a success.
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you have weird standards for determining successes and failures...

but shit like this will hopefully come back to bite Ford come lawsuit time
 
"Balancing" is the wrong word. The environment is the most important issue we currently face.

Tanking all the green initiatives/projects only makes the inevitable more expensive, delayed and increased the damage in the meantime. Its not like all these laws/projects won't be reinstated. There is no other alternative. Its just costing us money and time.
 
leafman101 said:
"Balancing" is the wrong word. The environment is the most important issue we currently face.

Tanking all the green initiatives/projects only makes the inevitable more expensive, delayed and increased the damage in the meantime. Its not like all these laws/projects won't be reinstated. There is no other alternative. Its just costing us money and time.
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Ford fighting green indicatives is delaying the inevitable. The next Liberal or NDP government will have these back in a flash. Toronto City council will likely be reversed as well.

Ford taking the government out of the sin business is likely permanent, as the next Liberal or NDP government will have a hell of time putting that genie back in the bottle.
 
Yeah, but that doesn't mean there is no consequences to fighting the green initiatives. Cancelling and delaying projects will cost the province hundred of millions, if not billions, completely ignoring the damage to the planet. All to achieve nothing.

The two issues are not equal in magnitude.
 
leafman101 said:
Yeah, but that doesn't mean there is no consequences to fighting the green initiatives. Cancelling and delaying projects will cost the province hundred of millions, if not billions, completely ignoring the damage to the planet. All to achieve nothing.

The two issues are not equal in magnitude.
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It's Ontario.

The province has been grossly mismanaged for decades. Will this be the PCs version of the gas plants? Probably. In the end, the province on a whole isn't going to save the planet through green policy or destroy it by ripping it up. The Feds will take the lead anyways, and as long as Sheer doesn't win next October, the feds will be the driving force fighting climate change, far more than what Ford will be able to resist.

In the meantime, some common sense around the issue of Marijuana is welcome. Ford, for all his faults, is not treating citizens like children who don't know what's good for them or how to manage their MJ use. Very libertarian in a way.

So I'll take the permanent Ford good over the temporary and largely ineffective Ford bad. I say this as someone who doesn't even smoke the stuff, but can see the benefits of to the economy by allowing people to use it how they see fit rather than restrict it for no good reason.
 
I'm not sad to see the Drive Clean program for passenger vehicles go. It has served its purpose and now is not much more that a tax grab.

According to government of Ont. Stats in 2012 fewer than 100,000 vehicles failed the test.

New car manufacturers environmental standards have increased over the past several years and gasoline has become cleaner burning.

Keep in mind that the discontinuation of the test refers to passenger vehicles only.
 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-obrador-phone-call-1.4843611

President-elect Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said Prime Minister Justin Trudeau asked him during a Thursday phone call "to intervene and call on the U.S. government to reach an agreement" with Canada on the renegotiation of NAFTA.

"We agreed to that," Lopez Obrador told reporters in Mexico City. Mexico's president-elect also said he would insist on a trilateral pact.

According to a read out of the call from the Prime Minister's Office the two men "agreed to work closely together to further strengthen the dynamic partnership between Canada and Mexico" and "discussed NAFTA and the mutually beneficial economic and trading relationship between our two countries."
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I mentioned a few weeks ago that AMLO is no friend of Trumps and would look to stifle Pena Nieto's push for a bilateral agreement. Well, here it is. AMLO already has defacto control of the Mexican senate and nothing was getting through without his off the record agreement.

It's felt like Canada's allies all went missing lately between the trade bullshit with the US and the deafening silence that happened after we called out the Saudi's. I think we just found one.
 
MindzEye said:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-obrador-phone-call-1.4843611



I mentioned a few weeks ago that AMLO is no friend of Trumps and would look to stifle Pena Nieto's push for a bilateral agreement. Well, here it is. AMLO already has defacto control of the Mexican senate and nothing was getting through without his off the record agreement.

It's felt like Canada's allies all went missing lately between the trade bullshit with the US and the deafening silence that happened after we called out the Saudi's. I think we just found one.
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About ****ing time.
 
I'll be disappointed if Trudeau and Freeland cave.

They should definitely call Trump's bluff here.
 
Altair said:
Won't matter if Canada can't make a deal today.

Seems like trump and co will destroy the Canadian auto sector if a deal cannot be reached.
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Trump is about to have his ability to lay tariffs challenged by a Democrat Congress. The "national security" exception would not survive a legal challenge in this case.
 
LeafGm said:
Apparently Canada and the USA have agreed on a new NAFTA deal.

This according to Daniel Dale of the Toronto Star.

No details on what's been agreed to yet.
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It’s going to be very good for us.
Trump will claim complete victory.
Trudeau will be typically deferential and avoid stepping on any toes.
As usual, the proof will be in the details.
 
sounds like Canada was able to hang on to cultural exemptions, the resolution mechanism, and gave up just minor access to the dairy market (similar to TPP deal)

We’ll know more tomorrow but it doesn’t feel like a massive shift.

That won’t stop Trumpanzees from declaring a massive victory, like this twat.

@jacobawohl
BREAKING: In MASSIVE victory for President Trump, Canada folds and agrees to join in US-Mexico trade deal
 
Daniel Dale @ddale8
9m
The name NAFTA is likely to change. Trump, often concerned about branding above all else, says he wants to call it "USMC," for US-Mexico-Canada - "like the United States Marine Corps, which I love." We will see how the United States Marine Corps feels about this.



literally all Trump wanted.
 
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