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New Canadian Politics Thread

UWHabs said:
They're less than a year into their term, though, so they'd need a massive revolt in caucus to have any effect. They'd need practically a whole wing of the party to split off to even drop down to a minority.

What it signals more to me is how bad the NDP is. The Liberals got mauled in last election, and even the MPPs they got elected aren't sticking around. How the NDP isn't wiping the floor with them just baffles me.
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Andrea Horwath is just as guilty of hubris as Kathleen Wynne. She'd had multiple kicks at the can against a deeply unpopular incumbent government and a Tory party that couldn't stop shooting itself in the foot, and she failed to gain any traction or inspire anybody. Why she or anyone thought it'd be different this time around is baffling.

Though it may be possible that the NDP might just be permanently ****ed in Ontario after the Bob Rae experiment.

As for the Tories, yeah, I agree it's early. I'm not expecting some movement to dump Ford as Premier or a mass caucus revolt. But the entire caucus has been pretty united behind him and his personal brand and his gaslighting messaging up to this point. And they've been OK with him kicking people out of caucus for having different opinions or not constantly giving him standing ovations in the legislature. That's where I wonder if there might not be some push-back sooner than later.
 
UWHabs said:
They're less than a year into their term, though, so they'd need a massive revolt in caucus to have any effect. They'd need practically a whole wing of the party to split off to even drop down to a minority.

What it signals more to me is how bad the NDP is. The Liberals got mauled in last election, and even the MPPs they got elected aren't sticking around. How the NDP isn't wiping the floor with them just baffles me.
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Dead serious question. Why does that baffle you?
 
CaptainBolduke said:
Dead serious question. Why does that baffle you?
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Baffles me in how inept they are. Like, I know they're a tire fire of a party, but you still expect someone in the party to think that maybe with some small changes, they'd have a chance to actually win rather than be happy to finish 2nd.
 
Wayward DP said:
Jody and Jane both to run as independents.
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I guess they must both harbour some hope of retaining their seats as independents and then returning to the Liberal fold at some later date. I read somewhere that historically, the success rate for MP's running for re-election as independents after getting kicked out of their party is about 33%.

Which, I suppose, is much higher than the success rate of running as a Green or NDP candidate. And maybe they imagine that, in the event of a Conservative election win and Trudeau getting turfed, because they abstained from joining a rival party, one of them (probably JWR) will be able to run in the subsequent leadership contest.
 
LeafGm said:
I guess they must both harbour some hope of retaining their seats as independents and then returning to the Liberal fold at some later date. I read somewhere that historically, the success rate for MP's running for re-election as independents after getting kicked out of their party is about 33%.

Which, I suppose, is much higher than the success rate of running as a Green or NDP candidate. And maybe they imagine that, in the event of a Conservative election win and Trudeau getting turfed, because they abstained from joining a rival party, one of them (probably JWR) will be able to run in the subsequent leadership contest.
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Apparently May even offered to resign as Leader of the greens if either wanted to be leader of the Green Party.

But yeah, I thought for sure it would have made more sense for them to simply run as Greens, although I guess by running as independents they can still keep running on the "integrity" tag or whatever, and as mentioned, have a better chance at being welcomed back by a future leader.
 
What would happen if no one voted or maybe 20 percent of the pop?

We all sit and debate about the pros and cons of each party but they are just 2 different sides of the same coin.

Liberals want to introduce a 50% tax on any profits from a home sold after 1 year and I think 40% on year two.

Wtf ...... so i buy a house for 200000, and throw 50000 into renovations. If i turn around and sell it for 320000, after the real estate have taken their 16000 and lawyers have taken their 2000, and subtract the original 50000 invested for reno's, that is 68000 from the 320000 that leaves 252000.
So then since i made 52000 from the sale, that means the government would 26000 for their profit tax idea. Never mind the property taxes paid that year.
So a 26000 profit? For all that work .....

This is nuts!

I like the idea of a law passed that would immediately fire any politician who spends within 5% of the budget available.
 
uncus said:
What would happen if no one voted or maybe 20 percent of the pop?

We all sit and debate about the pros and cons of each party but they are just 2 different sides of the same coin.

Liberals want to introduce a 50% tax on any profits from a home sold after 1 year and I think 40% on year two.

Wtf ...... so i buy a house for 200000, and throw 50000 into renovations. If i turn around and sell it for 320000, after the real estate have taken their 16000 and lawyers have taken their 2000, and subtract the original 50000 invested for reno's, that is 68000 from the 320000 that leaves 252000.
So then since i made 52000 from the sale, that means the government would 26000 for their profit tax idea. Never mind the property taxes paid that year.
So a 26000 profit? For all that work .....

This is nuts!

I like the idea of a law passed that would immediately fire any politician who spends within 5% of the budget available.
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Might be worth it to stop those using the real estate market to wash dirty money.

Tough for house flippers, but this is the entire economy we are talking about here.
 
Altair said:
Might be worth it to stop those using the real estate market to wash dirty money.

Tough for house flippers, but this is the entire economy we are talking about here.
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Not to mention huge segments of the population under baby-boomer age who've essentially been shut out of the housing market for their entire adult lives.

I mean, ****...the example uncus uses is buying a house for $200,000? That's a nice fantasy anywhere outside of bum**** nowhere in this country.
 
uncus said:
What would happen if no one voted or maybe 20 percent of the pop?
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Nothing. Fewer people would be deciding our politics, that's it.



Liberals want to introduce a 50% tax on any profits from a home sold after 1 year and I think 40% on year two.

Wtf ...... so i buy a house for 200000, and throw 50000 into renovations. If i turn around and sell it for 320000, after the real estate have taken their 16000 and lawyers have taken their 2000, and subtract the original 50000 invested for reno's, that is 68000 from the 320000 that leaves 252000.
So then since i made 52000 from the sale, that means the government would 26000 for their profit tax idea. Never mind the property taxes paid that year.
So a 26000 profit? For all that work .....

This is nuts!
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So here's why I kind of don't have an issue with a flipping tax (right now I think it's 6 months before you can claim something to be your primary residence).

So is it a business or is it not a business? Because that really feels like the person in your scenario is operating a business. If they're operating a business, register your business and all of those costs are now tax deductible. So out of your 120K profit you get to deduct real estate and lawyers fees, your 50K cost of renos, you can get really fun with it and bill out some family members as casual labour/admin, etc. Cell phones, travel costs, etc, etc, etc. Once you're done inventing expenses (that you were likely already paying elsewhere in your life anyway) you're going to be down into the 40K range in before tax profits, and the governments take of that is somewhere in the 18-20% rate (off the top of my head). So ~8K

So a 32K profit on the books, but closer to 50-60K in reality. Then do your own real estate leg work using a ComFree service and you can save the realtor fees (minus 800 bones for comfree, and say another 1000 in local advertising)

Yeah, I don't have a problem with a flipping tax. If you're operating a business, register the business and treat it like one.


I like the idea of a law passed that would immediately fire any politician who spends within 5% of the budget available.
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The only reason a politician should get "fired" in a democracy is if they're voted out. Tying it to budget expenditure is stupid. What happens if the stock market/world economy takes a fat shit again and the right move is massive stimulus funding (2008 all over again basically)? Fire the politicians right in the middle of a crisis because 99% of the population doesn't understand basic economics?
 
MindzEye said:
Nothing. Fewer people would be deciding our politics, that's it.





So here's why I kind of don't have an issue with a flipping tax (right now I think it's 6 months before you can claim something to be your primary residence).

So is it a business or is it not a business? Because that really feels like the person in your scenario is operating a business. If they're operating a business, register your business and all of those costs are now tax deductible. So out of your 120K profit you get to deduct real estate and lawyers fees, your 50K cost of renos, you can get really fun with it and bill out some family members as casual labour/admin, etc. Cell phones, travel costs, etc, etc, etc. Once you're done inventing expenses (that you were likely already paying elsewhere in your life anyway) you're going to be down into the 40K range in before tax profits, and the governments take of that is somewhere in the 18-20% rate (off the top of my head). So ~8K

So a 32K profit on the books, but closer to 50-60K in reality. Then do your own real estate leg work using a ComFree service and you can save the realtor fees (minus 800 bones for comfree, and say another 1000 in local advertising)

Yeah, I don't have a problem with a flipping tax. If you're operating a business, register the business and treat it like one.




The only reason a politician should get "fired" in a democracy is if they're voted out. Tying it to budget expenditure is stupid. What happens if the stock market/world economy takes a fat shit again and the right move is massive stimulus funding (2008 all over again basically)? Fire the politicians right in the middle of a crisis because 99% of the population doesn't understand basic economics?
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I'm not sure what house flipping rules he's talking about, but flipping a house in that span is a business, so as long as it's taxed the same as business revenue/income, that makes sense to me. I'm not aware of any new rules around that, though, so not sure why it was mentioned.

But as for firing politicians, which budget are you talking about? Probably not just about their MPs budget. If it's the government budget, then who would get fired? Finance minister who sets the budget? PM who is the figure head? Treasury Board President who nobody even knows who they are?

But yeah, as you say, there's a very easy way to fire someone - vote them out in the next election. Now, 3/4 of the time that doesn't work, because, for example, Bill Morneau could be the worst minister in the world but it will take a force of God for the Liberals to lose Toronto Centre in the next election. But yeah, everyone has a vote, and the better way to send politicians a message is for everyone to actually go out and vote, and then they'll actually have to pay attention to people. The less public who votes, the more it's the partisans who end up deciding for everyone.
 
Marc Carney to replace Trudeau if the liberals lose the next election?

Knives are coming out already?
 
I would imagine so. He beat Harper and has served his purpose to the party. I can't see the more serious types being in love with him beyond his ability to maintain power.
 
UWHabs said:
I'm not sure what house flipping rules he's talking about, but flipping a house in that span is a business, so as long as it's taxed the same as business revenue/income, that makes sense to me. I'm not aware of any new rules around that, though, so not sure why it was mentioned.
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True, there is more to it than I alluded to.
And I do wait more than the year.
 
Liberals want to introduce a 50% tax on any profits from a home sold after 1 year and I think 40% on year two.

Wtf ...... so i buy a house for 200000, and throw 50000 into renovations. If i turn around and sell it for 320000, after the real estate have taken their 16000 and lawyers have taken their 2000, and subtract the original 50000 invested for reno's, that is 68000 from the 320000 that leaves 252000.
So then since i made 52000 from the sale, that means the government would 26000 for their profit tax idea. Never mind the property taxes paid that year.
So a 26000 profit? For all that work .....

This is nuts!

I like the idea of a law passed that would immediately fire any politician who spends within 5% of the budget available.[/QUOTE]

The problem with this (in theory) is what if you buy a house then your job forces a relocation (say Toronto to London). Why should you get dinged on potential sales profit. What if circumstances in the surrounding require a re-location, should you get dinged if selling and making a profit. There needs to be exceptions. However I agree with what has been suggested.
 
MindzEye said:
I would imagine so. He beat Harper and has served his purpose to the party. I can't see the more serious types being in love with him beyond his ability to maintain power.
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Maybe.

If we are going to speculate though, I would have thought Freeland would have been the runaway favorite, not a suit like carney.
 
Carney would probably bring a lot of red torys / blue grits back over to the Liberals who feel they've gone too far left. He would be seen as a fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and bring the party back to the center a bit. Might bleed a bit of support on the left to the NDP but they're kind of a joke so would probably be worth it.

Although I can't really predict how bad the rich-white-banker backlash might be. He's not handsome enough to have that overlooked.
 
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