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OT: American Politics

MindzEye said:
Honestly don't believe that. I know everyone is down on the American public and deservedly so, but they kind of narrowly voted for Trumpistan. Not Project2025istan. Even if we know those are the same thing, a huge percentage of his voters don't actually believe them to be the same thing. I honestly think the con becomes obvious to them after Donnie kicks it and the hamfisted fucks who have been drawn to his movement to try to snatch up some of the power for themselves start the infighting before the body goes cold.

I seriously don't think the movement survives internal succession fighting and they only got this far because Donnie knows how to snake charm the rubes. None of the rest of them have that power.
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Can't believe we have to read this defeatist whining from WeHave in every second post. Yeah it's a scary time and we definitely have to proceed under the assumption that a lot of fuckery awaits, but a few things to remember:

- Mindz is right in that the vast majority of these people love Trump (for whatever fucking reason, I will never understand it but that doesn't mean it isn't true). These people do not have anywhere near the same affinity for these other fucksticks like Vance, Elon, Thiel or some clown running Project 2025 they've never heard of. Also people need to understand that they've been around making recommendations to the White House since the 80s.

- Trump is almost certainly going to be physically and mentally diminished in 4 years.

- There were a couple of bipartisan efforts to strengthen institutions and election integrity over the past 4 years. Didn't receive a whole lot of press but it happened.

- Even a shithole country like Venezuela just had what appear to be fair elections. Yes Maduro refused to accept the results, but it's not that easy to circumvent the measures in place to record votes, even in a country with a couple of decades of far greater corruption and chaos and nowhere near the history or Constitution than the USA.
 
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MindzEye said:
Democratic instituion and tradition doesn't just evaporate like that. The US isn't at all like Russia, which was captured so easily because it's democratic institutions were barely a decade old, deeply corrupt and captured by the oligarch class in a way foreign to Americans in 2024 even with how bad things have gotten today, and had a centuries long history of authoritarianism baked into the culture.

If Trump was 60, and he had a few decades worth of time to trickle in systemic changes I'd probably agree with you but I just don't see the movement as being durable without him and he's on the clock.

Now, with that said, even when he goes there are still some structural problems with American democracy that need dealing with. SCOTUS needs reform, the Senate needs reform (DC and PR deserve representation at a minimum), Congress needs reform (congress should be massively expanded. One of the key reasons corporate money has been able to capture it is that there are so few congressmen in country with so many people to represent). The Democrats could really easily fuck that up entirely and the backslide can continue but I think they get another crack at fixing this.
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You were right about the polls so I'll take your word.

I'm an optimistic almost half the time.
 
worm said:
You were right about the polls
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