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OT: American Politics

LeafGm said:
Well no. He is still white, after all.

Would be different if he was a Latino genetically unique cockroach chosen by god, but alas…
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Leo says to go fuck yourself

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WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
The most peaceful way to transfer power is to not transfer it in the first place by ensuring that elections no longer change the status quo. They've had elections in Russia since Putin came to power and he's never lost power or even come close to losing it, at least not via the ballot box.

I think people are allowing their coping to interfere with their knowledge about how fascist dictatorships are established and how they work once they have been established. The last "free and fair" US election happened last month. We're never seeing another one.
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If Putin took over the country at 78 yrs old, there would have been a transfer of power long, long ago. That's my point. Trump is not permanent at his age and health. I have serious questions about the ability of the any of the groups currently rotating around Trump's centre of gravity at the moment to hang on to an autocracy after he's gone. Once the con man dies, the illusion he's spun shatters imo. Once upon a time I felt like the GOP has on it's way to CCP status but it go co opted by Trump.
 
Slinger 48 said:
Thing is though the fucking trumpoids will never shut the fuck up about it all the while ignoring what the orange fuckstick and his baglickers are doing.
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If it wasn't that, they would just pick something else made up to never shut up about. This is the point, playing their game or giving a fuck what game they're playing is a losing proposition. Give them ammunition, don't, whatever. Ignore the noise.

The gameplan is simple imo

1) Defend institutions
2) Use what power is left in them to ensure that elections continue to exist
3) Stop making the elections about Trump and start making them be about a bold fucking vision for the future of the country. Jobs, economy, transportation, infrastructure. Hold up pictures of advanced shit in other countries and ask why America doesn't have the best of that. Say mean things about your billionaire donors and focus economic anxiety and anger where it belongs for a fucking change.

Trump will be dead or physically incapable to run for office within 2 cycles maximum, probably 1. Plan to resist him while he's alive, and to beat his movement when he's gone. If you resist well enough that you beat him in 2028 and it forces a constitutional crisis and some more wild Jan 6th type shit....fantastic, cross that bridge when you get there.
 
BTW, shouldn't Biden have waited till his last couple of days to pardon Hunter? This seems early, unless it was time-sensitive.
 
MindzEye said:
If Putin took over the country at 78 yrs old, there would have been a transfer of power long, long ago. That's my point. Trump is not permanent at his age and health. I have serious questions about the ability of the any of the groups currently rotating around Trump's centre of gravity at the moment to hang on to an autocracy after he's gone. Once the con man dies, the illusion he's spun shatters imo. Once upon a time I felt like the GOP has on it's way to CCP status but it go co opted by Trump.
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Trump isn't permanent but the fascism he will enable is.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Trump isn't permanent but the fascism he will enable is.
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Honestly don't believe that. I know everyone is down on the American public and deservedly so, but they kind of narrowly voted for Trumpistan. Not Project2025istan. Even if we know those are the same thing, a huge percentage of his voters don't actually believe them to be the same thing. I honestly think the con becomes obvious to them after Donnie kicks it and the hamfisted fucks who have been drawn to his movement to try to snatch up some of the power for themselves start the infighting before the body goes cold.

I seriously don't think the movement survives internal succession fighting and they only got this far because Donnie knows how to snake charm the rubes. None of the rest of them have that power.
 
MindzEye said:
Honestly don't believe that. I know everyone is down on the American public and deservedly so, but they kind of narrowly voted for Trumpistan. Not Project2025istan. Even if we know those are the same thing, a huge percentage of his voters don't actually believe them to be the same thing. I honestly think the con becomes obvious to them after Donnie kicks it and the hamfisted fucks who have been drawn to his movement to try to snatch up some of the power for themselves start the infighting before the body goes cold.

I seriously don't think the movement survives internal succession fighting and they only got this far because Donnie knows how to snake charm the rubes. None of the rest of them have that power.
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The problem is people have gone down the rabbit hole, I'm just not sure that people will be able to admit they were duped. And given all the fake news and setups, I think there's a good chance they might try the shenanigans in 4 years if they "lose", and you know Vance, the court, and co will have no qualms about ignoring voters.

I mean, yes, I think without Trump at the head with his cult, it's not going to be as strong. But you can see them controlling the media and the stories, suddenly all those like V for Vendetta type scenarios where the government manufactures something to be able to suspend liberties now stop being 100% science fiction. I don't want to believe stuff like that could be possible, but can you look at the whole Project 2025 movement and with a clear head say that it's pure fantasy?

And if Trump doesn't kick the bucket, I honestly wouldn't somehow put it past the courts to somehow add in a non-consecutive clause to the 22nd amendment, or just somehow go ahead and repeal it, and let Trump run again.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
I hope you're right but I think US democracy is already gone.
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Democratic instituion and tradition doesn't just evaporate like that. The US isn't at all like Russia, which was captured so easily because it's democratic institutions were barely a decade old, deeply corrupt and captured by the oligarch class in a way foreign to Americans in 2024 even with how bad things have gotten today, and had a centuries long history of authoritarianism baked into the culture.

If Trump was 60, and he had a few decades worth of time to trickle in systemic changes I'd probably agree with you but I just don't see the movement as being durable without him and he's on the clock.

Now, with that said, even when he goes there are still some structural problems with American democracy that need dealing with. SCOTUS needs reform, the Senate needs reform (DC and PR deserve representation at a minimum), Congress needs reform (congress should be massively expanded. One of the key reasons corporate money has been able to capture it is that there are so few congressmen in country with so many people to represent). The Democrats could really easily fuck that up entirely and the backslide can continue but I think they get another crack at fixing this.
 
UWHabs said:
The problem is people have gone down the rabbit hole, I'm just not sure that people will be able to admit they were duped. And given all the fake news and setups, I think there's a good chance they might try the shenanigans in 4 years if they "lose", and you know Vance, the court, and co will have no qualms about ignoring voters.

I mean, yes, I think without Trump at the head with his cult, it's not going to be as strong. But you can see them controlling the media and the stories, suddenly all those like V for Vendetta type scenarios where the government manufactures something to be able to suspend liberties now stop being 100% science fiction. I don't want to believe stuff like that could be possible, but can you look at the whole Project 2025 movement and with a clear head say that it's pure fantasy?

And if Trump doesn't kick the bucket, I honestly wouldn't somehow put it past the courts to somehow add in a non-consecutive clause to the 22nd amendment, or just somehow go ahead and repeal it, and let Trump run again.
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oh, if he's alive I 100% expect him to run again in 2028.

As for a false flag event, maybe but I don't know if that flies with how conspiratorial Americans have become. More likely imo is something Trump already tried to do during the BLM riots and just deploy the military with orders to fire on protestors. That's the tipping point moment for me if it comes to pass.

As to the rest it really comes down to how much they're able to remake the government in their own image in a relatively short amount of time. Are they going to be efficient and successful at replacing the generals with bootlickers? Are they going to be efficient and successful at replacing the civil servants with their loyalists, etc, etc, etc. I think this is a much bigger, more complicated and painful process than they imagine. This is what I'm talking about when I say to defend institutions. If Dems and assorted activists just roll over, yeah maybe it's over. If they don't and that can drag this out until the mid terms and get their hands back on a few levers of power, they can make this whole process take a long, long time and Donnie has never been someone who is good at keeping his eye on the ball for longer than a few minutes at a time.
 
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