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OT: American Politics

Re: OT: Canadian Politics

I would too. Screw the commoners! I want my gold plated pension and they can pay for it. Completely fair if you're the one benefiting from the sponging.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

theREALkoreaboy said:
this is full of outright lies and fallacies. we have "no risk of personal liability" in teaching? you have no idea what youre talking about. none. if i could breach confidentiality, i could tell you several stories of very significant damages suffered by teachers doing their jobs.

you think i only pay $5K a year for my pension? not even close.

you think i have a cadillac benefits package? again- you dont know what youre talking about. and this is an area i have looked at specifically. elementary teachers' benefits are by no means top-end.
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Tell us what you pay in actual monthly deductions from your paystub. I would be surprised if it was more than $400 a month. Amazed. There is certainly know way that you are paying say 15k out of that 92k salary towards your pension. Zero. Zilch. I know the numbers.

And you have no risk of personal liability. If you did teachers would have errors and omissions insurance like anyone else in an industry with such a risk.

Just re-read his response...clearly KB doesn't understand what "risk of personal liability" means.

Ugh.
 
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Re: OT: Canadian Politics

theREALkoreaboy said:
call your compensation whatever you want- you admit you make a lot more than i do. i dont give a f*ck what you call it. a portion of mine is called "pension". f*ck off.

and you're right its "give and take". we give up the ability to "make a lot more" like the really, really important people such as you and count make, and in return we take the stability and the pension.

and if you think teacher pensions are what is sinking the economy, again, you can f*ck off. your industry is far, far, far more responsible for sinking the economy than my pension is. and did i caterwaul when we all bailed your industry out to the tune of TRILLIONS of dollars worldwide?
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You possess no tangible skills that would suggest you could make more in another field. You chose the easy, comfy road.

You have zero entrepreneurial spirit. You are the simple, mindless, bloodsucking civil servant that you claim to hate so much.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

I found a link that suggests I am unfairly lowballing the contributions...but not my much.

Longtime teachers, who now contribute an average of 11% of salary towards their pension, can expect to receive about two thirds of what they were making over their last few years of work once they leave the classroom.

http://www.everydaymoney.ca/2011/05/disgruntled-teachers-fight-for-increased-pensions.html
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11% of 92k = $10,120 which is then matched, invested, and guaranteed. The value can never go down - only up. It doesn't go up? Don't worry, the shortfall will be made by the taxpayer...which is just fine in KB's book.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Based on the current salary grid in the province of Ontario, many teachers will be retiring with a salary in excess of $90,000 per year. The salary grid is the practice of automatically advancing up the pay scale by moving to a new job classification or getting an increased salary based on simply having worked another year in the same job, doing the same work. A school board may claim to be limiting union raises to 3 per cent; this figure applies to the annual base salaries in the contract but in reality, the total cost is higher become some employees have moved up to the new grid level of seniority or have been promoted to the next pay level. The total compensation may reach 5-6 per cent even though the announced ‘contract settlement’ was for only 3 per cent. Politicians use the lower number to promote themselves as representing the taxpayer by ‘holding the line’ on staff costs. Then the multiplier effect of the additional benefits and pensions based on the true salary increases kicks in as well. So when you read ‘3 per cent wage increase’, think 5-6 per cent out of your pocket and into theirs. A 70 per cent pension will give them a pension income starting at around $63,000 per year, including CPP.

These levels of income are well above the average worker’s wage in Canada of around $46,000 per year. Not the worker’s pension, mind you, the worker’s wage. These pensions put retired teachers into the top 20 per cent of senior incomes….

An employee retiring at age 55, with a $63,000 pension has a life expectancy of another 29.8 years. Assuming that the pension is adjusted for inflation at 2 per cent, the retiree will receive over $2.5 million in pension income based on normal life expectancy, and at the end of 29 years will have an income of more than $110,000 per year. Currently there is a dramatic trend to teachers living over 100 years of age. These employees will earn $4.6 million, with about $856,000 coming from the CPP program assuming indexing of 2 per cent.

http://www.societyforqualityeducati.../the-real-value-of-ontario-teachers-pensions/
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Important points bolded.

Anyone with a brain can look at these numbers and acknowledge that the value to cover these costs simply isn't there. KB would immediately job on how unsustainable such a scheme is if it was related to say, the auto industry, or parks canada, or any other department.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

theREALkoreaboy said:
and if you think teacher pensions are what is sinking the economy, again, you can f*ck off. your industry is far, far, far more responsible for sinking the economy than my pension is. and did i caterwaul when we all bailed your industry out to the tune of TRILLIONS of dollars worldwide?
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I've said it a thousand times. Pensions are not THE reason for a sinking economy, they are ONE of the reasons for a sinking economy.

And "my industry" hasn't sunk the economy at all. I work with Canadian institutions, none of which received a penny of the TRILLIONS of dollars you are suggesting was used as a bailout.

Glad to know you are finally admitting that down the road the rest of us will need to bailout retired Ontario teachers.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Paying a retired teacher $63K / yr for close to 30 yrs is enough to make you throw up in your mouth. WHY DID I NOT BECOME A TEACHER?
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Don't worry. They won't get that. There simply isn't enough money.

Not sure what they'll do when it gets to that point.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Deckie007 said:
Paying a retired teacher $63K / yr for close to 30 yrs is enough to make you throw up in your mouth. WHY DID I NOT BECOME A TEACHER?
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Wish I could go back in time and shake my younger self.

Let us not forget that teachers are allowed to cash out and take a lump sum or take a yearly pension.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

corksens said:
I don't make that much more than you.

No pension. No benefits. No security.

Admit it, collective bargaining over the years has failed the province and provided a huge unfair cushion under your head at the expense of the rest of the province.

We're going to have a major issue in 20-30 years. We're going to have 10's of thousands of people retiring and a tax base that can't afford it. Add to it the fact that most people will never save enough in their own RRSP's and you have an environment with haves and have nots. That won't last. Changes will be made and kb will be begging to keep half of what collective bargaining has "earned" for him.

Retirement winter is coming.
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20-30 years? Try 5 years. The 15 billion deficit is going to start digging in and there is no manufacturing to back it up. If the housing/commercial market tumbles, it will come faster.

Gold plated retirements will be butt fracked. Bet on it.
 
This debate recap is pretty sweet.

[video=youtube;QlwilbVYvUg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QlwilbVYvUg#![/video]
 
lecoqsportif said:
Not quite. This is how quacks, hacks and well-meaning amateurs assess things (including Atlantic Monthly, apparently). Read this, and then maybe we can discuss what Obama "bought" for $5T:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...-lurks-behind-every-statistic/article4600698/
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Not quite. Are we going to create memes and stats of ones choosing is counterfactual.

Tell me this....what was the great vision of that 5 trillion? Any hoover dams in there? Smart grids?
 
CH1 said:
Mitt didn't serve. But his Dad was for the war (until he changed his mind) and Mitt was annoyed by the protestors on campus so he started his own protest group to combat them.
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And obama was doing lines.......and dreaming about a communist utopia.

Need to pick better arguments.
 
lecoqsportif said:
Yeah, I think the tough part for people to swallow is that the Taliban will be back in power in 2015, this will be very difficult to message. The question is, after all that has happened, do they understand that they cannot host a terrorist NGO on their soil that commits egregious crimes in other countries? Ultimately, the west cannot control who is in power there, and we cannot stop these medieval arseholes from shooting 14 year girls in the head. But we can make it perfectly clear to them the existentialist consequences of allowing their country to be a staging ground. They are the sovereigns, and they need to start acting like one.

Another thing, a lot has changed. India is a much bigger factor, and there's no way in hell Pakistan wants to go through this experience again. The Saudis are aware (that the west is aware) of their complicity in terms of $$$$. The return of the Taliban and their fellow travelers is distasteful, but I fear it is inevitable. That said, that doesn't mean they will have the support, capacity, or even the motivation to pull another attack. After the attacks on 9-11 and Mumbai, they have been badly degraded.

The question is his: is the average Joe in the west able to accept this after all the blood and gold that has been spent?
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You had to deal with Pakistan and instal permenant bases if you wanted to break the Taliban. That is not going to happen unless they move to Mexico.

Twenty years from now this will be viewed as a waste of time and blood. See Russia.
 
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