MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
You would
OT: Movies/TV Shows
- Thread starter BeLeafer
- Start date
You would
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
I'm Greek, no ass on them things
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Damn, what a total letdown the last Saul was for me. Since the amazing Lalo/Howard episode, instead of ramping up into an edge of your seat climax, you have this slow and uneventful arthouse Gene story that ends on such an unrealistic note because nobody would do what he did in the end, not to mention him of all people, regardless of any guilt or redemption they were seeking. Not a GOT type ending ruining of everything that came before it, but nowhere near the standard it set for itself. That final decision of his almost completely betrays the evolution of the character over all these episodes. Too bad. I figured it would somehow wind down in a suspenseful way and end with a bang like BB did. Ah well.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
They should never have done the Gene storyline if that’s how they were going to end it. The sudden Jimmy’s back moment and what it led him to do had no basis or justification.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Not in any believable way. They just pulled the rug out from under the character. For someone who thought Jimmy was a good guy who kept getting pushed by others down the wrong path until he finally embraced it and ran with it, his turn came out of nowhere for me and made the character do a 180 for no realistic reason after he’d gone to all the trouble working the situation to his advantage. The give up moment was hollow. And how Kim’s story gets to end is totally unfair considering the shit she pulled to basically force the outcomes we saw unfold. They wanted to end it with redemption, but everything that came before the epiphany basically closed that off from being possible. He couldn’t keep Saul down in the Gene storyline and he came out more rotten than ever. But then he suddenly finds Jimmy from season one and lets him take over at the worst possible moment for him. Such a bummer.
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LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Totally permitted.
zeke
Well-known member
Wrong.
Kinda but for a reason.
He was never a good guy.
He had two choices in the end and could have gone either way and both would have worked.
But you're pulling for a totally unfair ending for Jimmy's story.
Yeah he was stuck with no good choices at the end, and deservedly so. There was no way he could keep on existing as Gene, but it was his only way to survive unscathed. You knew he couldn't keep it it up forever - Jimmy could never stop himself from scheming, even when he had every opportunity to be good and successful without scheming.....let alone when he was stuck being schmuck Gene in hiding.
Jimmy is a bad guy through and through. He could never stop being bad. His brother knew it. He knew it. Everyone knew it. And while Kim wasn't innocent he pulled her down out of a very successful life.
In the end there was only one thing that he cared about more than his own schemes - Kim. He wasn't redeeming himself, he wasn't trying to - he just wanted to save Kim.
Kinda but for a reason.
He was never a good guy.
Holy spoilers. Sorry everyone.
He had two choices in the end and could have gone either way and both would have worked.
But you're pulling for a totally unfair ending for Jimmy's story.
Yeah he was stuck with no good choices at the end, and deservedly so. There was no way he could keep on existing as Gene, but it was his only way to survive unscathed. You knew he couldn't keep it it up forever - Jimmy could never stop himself from scheming, even when he had every opportunity to be good and successful without scheming.....let alone when he was stuck being schmuck Gene in hiding.
Jimmy is a bad guy through and through. He could never stop being bad. His brother knew it. He knew it. Everyone knew it. And while Kim wasn't innocent he pulled her down out of a very successful life.
In the end there was only one thing that he cared about more than his own schemes - Kim. He wasn't redeeming himself, he wasn't trying to - he just wanted to save Kim.
LeafGm
Well-known member
Saul spoilers:
There's a lot about the ending to Saul that was good.
Him being able to continue living as "Gene" long-term wouldn't have made any sense. Of course he was going to slide back into his slippin' Jimmy/Saul cons. Of course it makes sense that eventually someone would recognize someone with his notoriety. And of course he'd eventually get caught as a result of those two things.
The final few episodes of Saul being kind of a slow-burn makes sense too, because it wouldn't have been true to character at all for him to go down in some hail-of-gunfire blaze of glory like Walter White. It also makes sense that he wasn't able to cross the line to murder and kill that old lady in order to keep his secret. And it makes sense that he was a shitty fugitive and got caught once the police started converging on him.
I also thought it was a fitting end for the show to end up with him in prison.
The only thing I didn't understand at all was the complete about-face after he finished negotiating his sweetheart plea deal. Instead of getting out after seven years served in relative comfort, he threw away the rest of his life. And for what? A sudden sense of guilt? Wanting to impress Kim? And it's not like there was even an element of self-sacrifice to it, since he didn't in any way get Kim out of her own legal jeopardy with that move.
Him being able to continue living as "Gene" long-term wouldn't have made any sense. Of course he was going to slide back into his slippin' Jimmy/Saul cons. Of course it makes sense that eventually someone would recognize someone with his notoriety. And of course he'd eventually get caught as a result of those two things.
The final few episodes of Saul being kind of a slow-burn makes sense too, because it wouldn't have been true to character at all for him to go down in some hail-of-gunfire blaze of glory like Walter White. It also makes sense that he wasn't able to cross the line to murder and kill that old lady in order to keep his secret. And it makes sense that he was a shitty fugitive and got caught once the police started converging on him.
I also thought it was a fitting end for the show to end up with him in prison.
The only thing I didn't understand at all was the complete about-face after he finished negotiating his sweetheart plea deal. Instead of getting out after seven years served in relative comfort, he threw away the rest of his life. And for what? A sudden sense of guilt? Wanting to impress Kim? And it's not like there was even an element of self-sacrifice to it, since he didn't in any way get Kim out of her own legal jeopardy with that move.
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zeke
Well-known member
yeah he did - his testimony was that because of what he did to Howard, Howard killed himself.
LeafGm
Well-known member
He didn’t testify that Howard killed himself.
He took responsibility for his own part in the events that lead up to his murder. But that in no way shields Kim from responsibility for her own involvement, or her own civil liability where Howard’s widow is concerned.
He took responsibility for his own part in the events that lead up to his murder. But that in no way shields Kim from responsibility for her own involvement, or her own civil liability where Howard’s widow is concerned.
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zeke
Well-known member
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I'm gonna go on record and disagree with LOF and say that it was a lovely ending and quite fitting. I enjoyed it.
Blind betting against a LoF take is usually the way
zeke
Well-known member
oh and he preceded that by telling a story about how Kim was guilty as sin for Howard's death, which got her to come to court....and then says he lied about that just to get her to court, and that howard killed himself.
p.s. for LoF - as dissappointing as it was to see Jimmy end that way, in the end life in prison was no different than life as Gene. he was even baking bread in prison just like cinnabons as Gene. Hell, prison was probably even better than life as Gene - at least he was able to be the famous Saul Goodman again, and had the respect of all the other prisoners. In the end he chose to be Saul Goodman rather than Gene... and Saul Goodman deserved to be in prison.
LeafGm
Well-known member
False, bobo.
Go re-watch Saul’s confession. The only mention he made of how Howard Hamlin died was to specifically call it a murder.
And nothing in his statement exonerates Kim for her own involvement.
Go re-watch Saul’s confession. The only mention he made of how Howard Hamlin died was to specifically call it a murder.
And nothing in his statement exonerates Kim for her own involvement.
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zeke
Well-known member
Direct quotes:
“Oh,” he says, “I lied to the government about Kim Wexler … I just wanted her to be here today, to hear this.”
...
“Bill, please,” Saul says, “just let me get through this. Instead, when I saw a chance to hurt him, I took it. I got his malpractice insurance canceled. I took away the one thing he lived for — the law. After that, he killed himself. And I’ll live with that.”
“Oh,” he says, “I lied to the government about Kim Wexler … I just wanted her to be here today, to hear this.”
...
“Bill, please,” Saul says, “just let me get through this. Instead, when I saw a chance to hurt him, I took it. I got his malpractice insurance canceled. I took away the one thing he lived for — the law. After that, he killed himself. And I’ll live with that.”