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OT: The News Thread

Re: OT - The News Thread

"Zionism Unmasked: The Dark Face of Jewish Nationalism."

the title of one of the good doctor's pieces. yup. he's a credible, unbiased source all right.

being credible and biased aren't mutually exclusive.

Your buddy Krauthammer is extremely biased as well, you just overlook it because you two share a similar bias. The threshold for being credible is an entirely separate conversation however.

If it was a 10 year military veteran, graduate of the War College and former Director of the US War College saying that Al Qaeda is standing outside of everyone's door right now waiting to kill you all, you wouldn't be questioning his credibility. It's only because you disagree with his assessment that you question his credibility.

Classic case of "shoot the messenger" debating.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Would you happen to know of any other organizations or individuals who share this theory that Mossad was involved in 9-11? I'm not about to change a viewpoint about that event based on a theory sent out on a talk radio show with a clear agenda to work, if there aren't others who have expressed it as a possibility.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

http://911blogger.com/node/21380

Ex Italian President Francisco Cossiga for one....


I don't even want to get too deep arguing this because my own beliefs on the attack are far from settled.

I don't believe the official narrative, and finding credible source material on the other side of things can indeed be tricky, which is why I was drawn to this audio interview when I came across it. I knew the knee jerk reactionaries would dismiss it out of hand, but when someone who reaches that type of level of in the US military structure says what Dr Sabrosky is saying, it's worth paying attention to.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

It's definitely an interesting argument. I don't think George W. needed much provocation to go after Iraq. He and the CIA could have hatched that all on their own without the help of Mossad. I'm not saying that Mossad is doing anything in US interests either. Our unconditional backing of the Israeli state is the biggest foreign policy mistake that the American government makes. They are not our friends, and we could cut them off without a dime tomorrow, and it wouldn't bother me a bit.

I just think there is too much other credible evidence that 9-11 was financed and carried out by Al-Quaida, to change my mind in favor of this theory.

That said, I may have to keep track of that other website you listed, thank you for that.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

you don't have to be a "knee-jerk reactionary" to dismiss the israel-did-9/11 theory out of hand.

you are hanging your hat on ONE audio (you apparently didnt even bother to look at the video, which shows this for what it is- an anti-israel propaganda piece along the lines of the protocols of zion) from one academic who was probably canned for his nutjob views, and who we can't even verify as being the one who was actually speaking. and what he is saying is just sheer speculation based on JACK SQUAT. and what he is saying doesn't make any kind of sense whatsoever.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

you know, i was just thinking- i can't remember if 9/11 was a windy day. according to blacksheep, the wind makes planes fly, so if it wasn't windy, how did those planes even get in the air?

speculating on THAT probably makes more sense than speculating on the israel-did-9/11 nonsense.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIBFX3-xXB0&feature=related"]YouTube- 3.The Ring of Power - Profiting from 9 11 [3 29][/ame]
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

9/11 was carried out by 19 (20) fanatical muslim lunatics who hated the US and the west and who were trained and funded by al qaeda to carry out a terror strike against the "great satan". full stop.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

yes yes. that's the official story to the T.

Oh man, 911 conspirationnists are the worst.

How about finding some real ****ing proofs before saying that the human race has sunk so low as to kill their own by the thousands just so that powerful men with more $ than they'll ever use get even more cash they won't use.

Have some faith in mankind.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Oh man, 911 conspirationnists are the worst.

How about finding some real ****ing proofs before saying that the human race has sunk so low as to kill their own by the thousands just so that powerful men with more $ than they'll ever use get even more cash they won't use.

Have some faith in mankind.

Not that I'm convinced one way or the other on 9/11...but you are a very naive and sheltered individual if that's what you think.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Texas schools board rewrites US history with lessons promoting God and guns
US Christian conservatives drop references to slave trade and sideline Thomas Jefferson who backed church-state separation

Chris McGreal, Houston guardian.co.uk, Sunday 16 May 2010 17.19 BST Article history



Cynthia Dunbar is one of a clutch of US Christian evangelists who have grasped control of the Texas education board. Photograph: Harry Cabluck/AP

Cynthia Dunbar does not have a high regard for her local schools. She has called them unconstitutional, tyrannical and tools of perversion. The conservative Texas lawyer has even likened sending children to her state's schools to "throwing them in to the enemy's flames". Her hostility runs so deep that she educated her own offspring at home and at private Christian establishments.

Now Dunbar is on the brink of fulfilling a promise to change all that, or at least point Texas schools toward salvation. She is one of a clutch of Christian evangelists and social conservatives who have grasped control of the state's education board. This week they are expected to force through a new curriculum that is likely to shift what millions of American schoolchildren far beyond Texas learn about their history.

The board is to vote on a sweeping purge of alleged liberal bias in Texas school textbooks in favour of what Dunbar says really matters: a belief in America as a nation chosen by God as a beacon to the world, and free enterprise as the cornerstone of liberty and democracy.

"We are fighting for our children's education and our nation's future," Dunbar said. "In Texas we have certain statutory obligations to promote patriotism and to promote the free enterprise system. There seems to have been a move away from a patriotic ideology. There seems to be a denial that this was a nation founded under God. We had to go back and make some corrections."

Those corrections have prompted a blizzard of accusations of rewriting history and indoctrinating children by promoting rightwing views on religion, economics and guns while diminishing the science of evolution, the civil rights movement and the horrors of slavery.

Several changes include sidelining Thomas Jefferson, who favoured separation of church and state, while introducing a new focus on the "significant contributions" of pro-slavery Confederate leaders during the civil war.

The new curriculum asserts that "the right to keep and bear arms" is an important element of a democratic society. Study of Sir Isaac Newton is dropped in favour of examining scientific advances through military technology.

There is also a suggestion that the anti-communist witch-hunt by Senator Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s may have been justified.

The education board has dropped references to the slave trade in favour of calling it the more innocuous "Atlantic triangular trade", and recasts the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as driven by Islamic fundamentalism.

"There is a battle for the soul of education," said Mavis Knight, a liberal member of the Texas education board. "They're trying to indoctrinate with American exceptionalism, the Christian founding of this country, the free enterprise system. There are strands where the free enterprise system fits appropriately but they have stretched the concept of the free enterprise system back to medieval times. The president of the Texas historical association could not find any documentation to support the stretching of the free enterprise system to ancient times but it made no difference."

The curriculum has alarmed liberals across the country in part because Texas buys millions of text books every year, giving it considerable sway over what publishers print. By some estimates, all but a handful of American states rely on text books written to meet the Texas curriculum. The California legislature is considering a bill that would bar them from being used in the state's schools.

In the past four years, Christian conservatives have won almost half the seats on the Texas education board and can rely on other Republicans for support on most issues. They previously tried to require science teachers to address the "strengths and weaknesses" in the theory of evolution – a move critics regard as a back door to teaching creationism – but failed. They have had more success in tackling history and social studies.

Dunbar backed amendments to the curriculum that portray the free enterprise system (there is no mention of capitalism, deemed to be a tainted word) as a cornerstone of liberty and argue that the government should have a minimal role in the economy.

One amendment requires that students be taught that economic prosperity requires "minimal government intrusion and taxation".

Underpinning the changes is a particular view of religion.

Dunbar was elected to the state education board on the back of a campaign in which she argued for the teaching of creationism – euphemistically known as intelligent design – in science classes.

Two years ago, she published a book, One Nation Under God, in which she argued that the United States was ultimately governed by the scriptures.

"The only accurate method of ascertaining the intent of the founding fathers at the time of our government's inception comes from a biblical worldview," she wrote. "We as a nation were intended by God to be a light set on a hill to serve as a beacon of hope and Christian charity to a lost and dying world."

On the education board, Dunbar backed changes that include teaching the role the "Jewish Ten Commandments" played in "political and legal ideas", and the study of the influence of Moses on the US constitution. Dunbar says these are important steps to overturning what she believes is the myth of a separation between church and state in the US.

"There's been this amorphous changing of how we look at religion and how we define religion within American history. One concern I have is that the viewpoint of the founding fathers is very clear. They were not against the promotion of religion. I think it is important to present a historically accurate viewpoint to students," she said.

On the face of it some of the changes are innocuous but critics say that closer scrutiny reveals a not-so-hidden agenda. History students are now to be required to study documents, such as the Mayflower Compact, which instil the idea of America being founded as a Christian fundamentalist nation.

Knight and others do not question that religion was an important force in American history but they fear that it is being used as a Trojan horse by evangelists to insert religious indoctrination into the school curriculum. They point to the wording of amendments such as that requiring students to "describe how religion and virtue contributed to the growth of representative government in the American colonies".

Among the advisers the board brought in to help rewrite the curriculum is David Barton, the leader of WallBuilders which seeks to promote religion in history. Barton has campaigned against the separation of church and state. He argues that income tax should be abolished because it contradicts the bible. Among his recommendations was that pupils should be taught that the declaration of independence establishes that the creator is at the heart of law, government and individual rights.

Conservatives have been accused of an assault on the history of civil rights. One curriculum amendment describes the civil rights movement as creating "unrealistic expectations of equal outcomes" among minorities. Another seeks to place Martin Luther King and the violent Black Panther movement as opposite sides of the same coin.

"We had a big discussion around that," said Knight, a former teacher. "It was an attempt to taint the civil rights movement. They did the same by almost equating George Wallace [the segregationist governor of Alabama in the mid-1960s] with the
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

and this is a prime example of why its hard to have faith in mankind Habs25th.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Why would we abolish religion? How about just radicals? Religion itself is fantastic. Teaches one to live by a moral and ethical code.

When it is taken, perverted, and abused is when we have problems.

As for 9/11. I find the whole "conspiracy theory" argument contrived. If the US wanted to invade Iraq they could have without bombing 3k of their own citizens. Further, so much of this evidence against the notion of the engine fuel burning down the building is based on models and calculations. Where have we seen that go wrong before? Cough, global warming/cooling, cough.

The fact is that massive passenger jets had never, ever, been flown into 100+ storey skyscrapers. Why is it so unreasonable that buildings would topple from such an interaction?

I also detest the quotes used from people on the ground. Conspiracy theorists use quotes like "It was so loud. It sounded like bombs were going off". BOOM! There's the smoking gun, there must have been bombs.

Have they ever heard of people exaggerating? Or maybe people getting caught up in the moment? Do people even know what bombs going off sound like?

There are so many reasons why 9/11 isn't an inside job. Not to mention a conspiracy that large would undoubtedly have been leaked by now. No question...something "official" would have gotten out.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

One doesn't need religion to lead a moral and ethical life and if anything religion creates radical ideology
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

One doesn't need religion to lead a moral and ethical life and if anything religion creates radical ideology
Of course not. But another positive environment which encourages people love and respect one another can only be a good thing. We surely don't have enough examples of that in our society today.

Again, it's the radicals which pervert those messages for control.

If you can't tell the difference then that's your problem.
 
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