MapleLeafBlueJayBoy
Well-known member
Sadly AA is scared to for whatever reason. It is really comical at this point.
OT: The Toronto Blue Jays
- Thread starter PlayerToBeNamedLater
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Sadly AA is scared to for whatever reason. It is really comical at this point.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
This is short bus level stupid.
AA doesnt set the budget...it's not like he can full a fast one and sign Prince Fielder without Rogers knowing.
To suggest he is scared to spend money, or even has the authority without asking is beyond stupid.
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
free agency doesn't work... especially if you need pitching.
i don't get why people clamour for it.
few worthwhile pitchers hit the market, which is what the jays need. a shit pitcher like kyle lohse gets 7 figures a year on the FA market. why would anybody watn to do that? it's asinine.
****, even the yankees, for all the money they spend, have little to show, at least based on their FA adds.
and look at some of the big names in recent years.
pujols
hamilton
and i'm not sure how anybody can feel reassured after seeing this
the jays need pitching. they don't need to blow big bucks on free agents. they need guys a guy or two who can win some games.
i don't get why people clamour for it.
few worthwhile pitchers hit the market, which is what the jays need. a shit pitcher like kyle lohse gets 7 figures a year on the FA market. why would anybody watn to do that? it's asinine.
****, even the yankees, for all the money they spend, have little to show, at least based on their FA adds.
and look at some of the big names in recent years.
pujols
hamilton
and i'm not sure how anybody can feel reassured after seeing this
the jays need pitching. they don't need to blow big bucks on free agents. they need guys a guy or two who can win some games.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
free agency doesn't work... especially if you need pitching.
i don't get why people clamour for it.
few worthwhile pitchers hit the market, which is what the jays need. a shit pitcher like kyle lohse gets 7 figures a year on the FA market. why would anybody watn to do that? it's asinine.
****, even the yankees, for all the money they spend, have little to show, at least based on their FA adds.
and look at some of the big names in recent years.
pujols
hamilton
and i'm not sure how anybody can feel reassured after seeing this
the jays need pitching. they don't need to blow big bucks on free agents. they need guys a guy or two who can win some games.
If the tigers hang onto Scherzer and opt to move Fister or Porcello i wonder if AA sniffs around those guys.
youreachiteach
New member
Stoeten put it well on Drunk's in an article he wrote about Fielder. He said that Ricciardi was "instructive' to AA in terms of teaching him not to overstep and to keep to a timeline (and save your money)--the only problem with that is that talent doesn't always keep to a timeline, and trying to "guess" your window by looking at how everyone else is doing is dangerous.
He believed at the time that the contract was too long and would come back to bite the Tigers. It's been ok, but it's not so much him as what he brings to a lineup that wouldn't have had to be acquired (or lived with). If AA has Fielder we don't have to suffer Lind forever. We could also kept Edwin at DH to keep him and JBAU healthier.
By not going all out on Darvish or Chapman (close doesn't count) or Puig (or any other MAJOR international free agent that actually cost something) AA cost himself the core assets he needed. In this way, he wouldn't have had to sell the farm to get Dickey. Then, the Marlins trade ends up a finishing touch on an elite squad--not a rickety rotation based on luck and turnaround years.
It's evident that AA and Beeston feel that no one will come here--both established coaches and players without being traded for, so they don't try. Sure, they'll take the Melky's or the Farrel's who are simply looking for a chance to prove themselves, but they are not going to get into a bidding war--they assume they will lose. Griffin has supported this statement many times, so it's not me just blowing smoke.
It's kind of pathetic, but that's the theory. As a result, AA is forced to take on more negatives so he can keep payroll low while he has to make lemonade from shit.
His whole approach is really risky, especially considering Rogers is loaded.
I don't see how he's going to "fix" this rotation unless Brandon or Johnson or both have a magic renaissance. If not, we're gonna suck, no matter who he pays unless it's Cano--and even then he'll need really solid decent starters (and we're not getting Cano).
I do like his approach to high upside positional talent--and I think this is something he does well. If he fails at this effort he has made, I hope they keep him around until he builds the farm up again--but then he has to be let go.
He believed at the time that the contract was too long and would come back to bite the Tigers. It's been ok, but it's not so much him as what he brings to a lineup that wouldn't have had to be acquired (or lived with). If AA has Fielder we don't have to suffer Lind forever. We could also kept Edwin at DH to keep him and JBAU healthier.
By not going all out on Darvish or Chapman (close doesn't count) or Puig (or any other MAJOR international free agent that actually cost something) AA cost himself the core assets he needed. In this way, he wouldn't have had to sell the farm to get Dickey. Then, the Marlins trade ends up a finishing touch on an elite squad--not a rickety rotation based on luck and turnaround years.
It's evident that AA and Beeston feel that no one will come here--both established coaches and players without being traded for, so they don't try. Sure, they'll take the Melky's or the Farrel's who are simply looking for a chance to prove themselves, but they are not going to get into a bidding war--they assume they will lose. Griffin has supported this statement many times, so it's not me just blowing smoke.
It's kind of pathetic, but that's the theory. As a result, AA is forced to take on more negatives so he can keep payroll low while he has to make lemonade from shit.
His whole approach is really risky, especially considering Rogers is loaded.
I don't see how he's going to "fix" this rotation unless Brandon or Johnson or both have a magic renaissance. If not, we're gonna suck, no matter who he pays unless it's Cano--and even then he'll need really solid decent starters (and we're not getting Cano).
I do like his approach to high upside positional talent--and I think this is something he does well. If he fails at this effort he has made, I hope they keep him around until he builds the farm up again--but then he has to be let go.
youreachiteach
New member
These two are going to be more expensive in terms of prospect capital than getting a free agent star would be. Money is better than trading away your controllable assets on guys another team considers expendable (as decent as they are).
youreachiteach
New member
So because a fat man trips on the base paths he didn't help the team this year?
#Logicfail.
#Logicfail.
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
he's 29 and horribly out of shape. he had an .814 ops season. and he's the second highest paid first baseman in the league.
as for "suffering through lind" -- adam lind was significantly better than prince fielder this year.
leafman101
Well-known member
Those big free agent deals are rarely worth it. IMO he should look for some bargains in free agency. I'd rather get 2-3 solid players, than one really good one.
I would love to add a guy like Cano, but is it really worth paying him 30 mill till he is 40 and not being able to do anything else this offseason.
I would love to add a guy like Cano, but is it really worth paying him 30 mill till he is 40 and not being able to do anything else this offseason.
youreachiteach
New member
What I mean is controllability, for lack of a better (non) word.
By trading young high upside talent, you are wasting years of cheap service. Yes, good players get traded. But great pitching doesn't. The cost for those two pitchers in terms of your best prospects will be prohibitive. If all you have to do is spend a lot one productive player with a proven skillset.--like say, Garza, than have to trade away all your young up and comers (no one trades for the guys below double A) for a guy they KIND of want but not as much as the players they are keeping--.you do it. Because in the end that proven high end production is far more likely to have an impact and lets you keep your youth in tact.
This is the problem with AA's approach. I can go to a medium range hotel and say I saved 100$ on my buddy's hotel...except his hotel was the one I wanted and he enjoyed himself more than I did. AA is going after second tier guys on fixed contracts who look really attractive fiscally but in the end are pieces someone else didn't want for a variety of reasons (too old, too expensive given production, injury prone, etc.) This also applies to his "star" acquisitions (Dickey and Buerle either too old, too trick pitch based, or too backloaded...and Reyes could hurt himself brushing his teeth.)
As far as Lind goes, please. The most protected hitter in the entire major leagues has one nice half season in three and he's better than Fielder? Please. People would have killed for Fielder the last three years--who plays every day and doesn't get babied more than a three day old.
He's fat but he's become a vegetarian already, what else do you want him to do? He hits a baseball a very long way and provides some depth to their lineup. He's had a down year, but he's a long way from done. It isn't only their pitching that has had them in the playoffs for the last two years, either.
In any case, he's a secondary acquisition. The main problem was AA's risk taking aversion to high end international pitching--which I bet we pass up on again with Tanaka.
By trading young high upside talent, you are wasting years of cheap service. Yes, good players get traded. But great pitching doesn't. The cost for those two pitchers in terms of your best prospects will be prohibitive. If all you have to do is spend a lot one productive player with a proven skillset.--like say, Garza, than have to trade away all your young up and comers (no one trades for the guys below double A) for a guy they KIND of want but not as much as the players they are keeping--.you do it. Because in the end that proven high end production is far more likely to have an impact and lets you keep your youth in tact.
This is the problem with AA's approach. I can go to a medium range hotel and say I saved 100$ on my buddy's hotel...except his hotel was the one I wanted and he enjoyed himself more than I did. AA is going after second tier guys on fixed contracts who look really attractive fiscally but in the end are pieces someone else didn't want for a variety of reasons (too old, too expensive given production, injury prone, etc.) This also applies to his "star" acquisitions (Dickey and Buerle either too old, too trick pitch based, or too backloaded...and Reyes could hurt himself brushing his teeth.)
As far as Lind goes, please. The most protected hitter in the entire major leagues has one nice half season in three and he's better than Fielder? Please. People would have killed for Fielder the last three years--who plays every day and doesn't get babied more than a three day old.
He's fat but he's become a vegetarian already, what else do you want him to do? He hits a baseball a very long way and provides some depth to their lineup. He's had a down year, but he's a long way from done. It isn't only their pitching that has had them in the playoffs for the last two years, either.
In any case, he's a secondary acquisition. The main problem was AA's risk taking aversion to high end international pitching--which I bet we pass up on again with Tanaka.
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CaptainBolduke
Active member
Fielder 2013 OPS = .819 @ close to 20 million.
Lind 2013 OPS = .857 @ 5.5 million.
Winner? Jays.
Leafin'
Well-known member
The biggest failure by the Jays is not being able to land these international free agents.
Yu Darvish
Yeonis Cespedes
Aroldis Chapman
Yasiel Puig
These guys would look mighty fine on our team. And only for money...
The Chapman one pisses me off, because we were actually down to the last 2 teams bidding.
Yu Darvish
Yeonis Cespedes
Aroldis Chapman
Yasiel Puig
These guys would look mighty fine on our team. And only for money...
The Chapman one pisses me off, because we were actually down to the last 2 teams bidding.
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
the jays traded for the most consistent pitcher of the past 15 years and the reigning cy young winner last winter. not matt garza.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
free agency doesn't work... especially if you need pitching.
i don't get why people clamour for it.
few worthwhile pitchers hit the market, which is what the jays need. a shit pitcher like kyle lohse gets 7 figures a year on the FA market. why would anybody watn to do that? it's asinine.
****, even the yankees, for all the money they spend, have little to show, at least based on their FA adds.
and look at some of the big names in recent years.
pujols
hamilton
and i'm not sure how anybody can feel reassured after seeing this
the jays need pitching. they don't need to blow big bucks on free agents. they need guys a guy or two who can win some games.
His expression after he hits the ground and is just lying there is priceless.
youreachiteach
New member
I meant, that's who they should target now--because spending the money on Garza will be preferable to dumping several high end prospects who would be cheap for years and probably have a solid chance to excel soon. Spending money on a sure thing (as sure as they get) is better than getting a 39 year old with back problems who throws a trick pitch in a weaker hitter's league.
It's also better than trading for injury prone starters desperate for a turnaround because the team is too cheap to pay full price or are too scared to get involved in a bidding duel.
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
much better to spend more money on a worse, less durable arm, with less upside?
garza has become an injury prone #3 starter, whose AL numbers are hardly better than dickey's were this year.
garza is going to get $15+ million into his mid-to-late 30s.
let somebody else do that. the jays can't make those sort of mistakes. that isn't being cheap. that's just being smart.
garza has become an injury prone #3 starter, whose AL numbers are hardly better than dickey's were this year.
garza is going to get $15+ million into his mid-to-late 30s.
let somebody else do that. the jays can't make those sort of mistakes. that isn't being cheap. that's just being smart.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
The fact Garza is the best UFA SP on the market is a really really bad thing.
I hate giving up assets as opposed to just cash, however none of Garza, Ubaldo, Kuroda (seems unrealistic), Burnett, or Kaazmir offer any excitement to me.
Frankly as far as UFA's go...Josh Johnson on a team friendly deal, if he wants to rebuild his value is the only thing that intrigues me.
I hate giving up assets as opposed to just cash, however none of Garza, Ubaldo, Kuroda (seems unrealistic), Burnett, or Kaazmir offer any excitement to me.
Frankly as far as UFA's go...Josh Johnson on a team friendly deal, if he wants to rebuild his value is the only thing that intrigues me.