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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Or, here's a wacky idea, instead of constantly pandering to the lowest common denominator and to the fair-weather fans who, because they don't really care that much, will always find a reason not to watch, how about not further pissing off the fans you actually have? Making structural changes like 7 inning games will render the record books obsolete and in no sport are the records more important to the hard core fans than baseball.

First and foremost, stop scheduling these games to start so late. Second, get rid of the DH and force managers to manage instead of simply filling out their lineup cards and taking a nap in the dugout. Bring back the bullpen golf carts so we don't have to watch a relief pitcher slow walk from the outfield fence to the pitching mound. Put an end to replays and challenges. They just delay the game. Live with the human error. Instruct umps to issue warnings to pitchers who take too long in between pitches. Limit the amount of pitcher-catcher-infielder mound conferences. There are any number of things one could do short of cutting the number of innings to speed things up.

And as for the playoffs, have WC1 play a 3 game series against WC2. WC1 gets to host all 3 games and WC2 is just happy to be there. No travel day. You want to host playoff games? Finish in the first wild card spot next time. The DS and LCS should be best of 5, with only the World Series as a best of 7.
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-robot umps
-universal DH(I kinda like that idea manny had with losing it once you change pitchers)

They really need to figure out a way to get more balls in play. The strikeout or home run baseball we’re seeing right now is not it. Defense, base running are entertaining and actually true to the spirit of sport. It showcases the “athletic” part of the sport.
 
I think if you can actually get a pitch clock/batting clock/robo strike zone working, that will have a big impact on keeping action moving. If you can actually shave 5-10 seconds off each pitch, that alone saves you about 30 minutes a game.

I could also get behind banning extreme shifts. Yeah, it ruins the true analytics, and stuff like that, but if balls in play are more useful, that might help encourage less guys to swing for the fences. I think robo umps could also help put more balls in play, since players should end up with a better idea of what's what, they should be able to better manage the strike zone, and the only pitchers who can make batters miss are the ones who can sequence and hide pitches properly so batters guess wrong.

As for 7 inning games making the record books obsolete, @WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou, which records do you think will suddenly fall because of that? Do you think someone will hit more than the .471 that Tetelo Vargas hit in 1943? Or if you want to skip Negro Leagues records, the .440 that Hugh Duffy hit in 1894? Is there a pitcher who's going to beat Old Hoss' 60 wins in 1884? Or if you only care about modern records, yeah, true, with 7 inning games it's unlikely that anyone will catch Henderson's 132 steals in a season, but then again, was anyone really getting close to that? I mean, even with our insane current strikeout rates, no pitchers are even coming close to catching Nolan Ryan's 383 from 1973 because they simply don't pitch enough innings. The only important record that anyone even has a chance to beat is the HR crown, but modern HR trends just means everyone and their mother can hit 20+, not that the top guys are nearing the 70+ from the record.

I mean, yeah, it might mean that modern players will have much less chance at reaching 3000 hits or 500 HR or 300 wins, or some other career marks like that, but you know what? They already are for a number of other reasons. The change to 7 innings is a drastically smaller change than MLB has gone through in the past.
 
Deckie007 said:
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Only AL fans like the DH. In real baseball the pitcher has to stand in the box and try to do something. Less specialization and more generalization is what the game needs. It needs baseball players playing baseball, not hitters and pitchers who can't do anything else.
 
axlsalinger said:
Just plain wrong on the DH. Growing up a Blue Jays and American League fan I've always thought that AL baseball was better. I do have some appreciation for the added strategy in the NL, but there is absolutely nothing less interesting in any major sport than watching pitchers hit. It fucking sucks, it has always fucking sucked, and you're taking a position with probably the most injury risk in all of pro sports and asking them to do something they suck at, often leading to extra injuries as well.

I can pretty much guarantee that you will see the DH in the National League starting next year once they have a new CBA, and it's about fucking time.

I don't get the replay argument either. Some things happen so fast you can't see it probably with the naked eye, why would you want to get so many plays wrong for no reasons? Speed it up, hell yes. Get rid of it, hell no.
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Well I grew up an Expos fan watching baseball as God intended it to be played and it was a better brand of baseball because managers had to actually manage. In a close game a manager has to choose between leaving his pitcher in the game or pulling him for a pinch hitter. An AL manager doesn't have those tough choices. He can use his pitchers any way he wants and barring injury nothing affects those choices. And it's not a given that the pitcher needs to be an easy out. They just need to take that part of the game more seriously and apply themselves to learning how to hit and, especially, how to properly lay down a bunt. Actually all players need to learn that. Baseball is about so much more than getting a couple of base hits and then standing around waiting for someone to hit a 3 run dinger.

Tim Raines used to bunt his way on to first, steal second, then go to third when the throw to second bounced into the outfield, then score on a sacrifice fly. Watching him on the basepaths was more exciting than waiting to see if someone could jack it over the fence.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Well I grew up an Expos fan watching baseball as God intended it to be played and it was a better brand of baseball because managers had to actually manage. In a close game a manager has to choose between leaving his pitcher in the game or pulling him for a pinch hitter. An AL manager doesn't have those tough choices. He can use his pitchers any way he wants and barring injury nothing affects those choices. And it's not a given that the pitcher needs to be an easy out. They just need to take that part of the game more seriously and apply themselves to learning how to hit and, especially, how to properly lay down a bunt. Actually all players need to learn that. Baseball is about so much more than getting a couple of base hits and then standing around waiting for someone to hit a 3 run dinger.

Tim Raines used to bunt his way on to first, steal second, then go to third when the throw to second bounced into the outfield, then score on a sacrifice fly. Watching him on the basepaths was more exciting than waiting to see if someone could jack it over the fence.
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Yeah, but forcing pitchers to stand at the plate and not swing the bat isn't going to bring the old game back. Teams have learned that bunting is BS 90% of the time, and forcing pitchers to bat isn't going to suddenly make them non-terrible at the plate either. Even if a guy could lay one down with 100% accuracy, it doesn't mean it's a good idea. That baseball is dead, and it's been dead for 20 years. Live with it.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Well I grew up an Expos fan watching baseball as God intended it to be played and it was a better brand of baseball because managers had to actually manage. In a close game a manager has to choose between leaving his pitcher in the game or pulling him for a pinch hitter. An AL manager doesn't have those tough choices. He can use his pitchers any way he wants and barring injury nothing affects those choices. And it's not a given that the pitcher needs to be an easy out. They just need to take that part of the game more seriously and apply themselves to learning how to hit and, especially, how to properly lay down a bunt. Actually all players need to learn that. Baseball is about so much more than getting a couple of base hits and then standing around waiting for someone to hit a 3 run dinger.

Tim Raines used to bunt his way on to first, steal second, then go to third when the throw to second bounced into the outfield, then score on a sacrifice fly. Watching him on the basepaths was more exciting than waiting to see if someone could jack it over the fence.
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not sure "Ok, Boomer" has ever been more appropriate. So...Ok Boomer.
 
Seems like other sports tinker with their rules pretty regularly to make the product better. Illegal defenses, goalies playing the puck in the corner, etc. Not sure why baseball needs to be so precious about keeping the rules the same when you see the product on the field has changed so much (for the worse IMO).
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Only AL fans like the DH. In real baseball the pitcher has to stand in the box and try to do something. Less specialization and more generalization is what the game needs. It needs baseball players playing baseball, not hitters and pitchers who can't do anything else.
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If anything, the trend is in the opposite direction, toward this generalization you want to see. Lots of teams have guys that play all over the field now. I think it’s great. The main change from old timey baseball is that there are very few weak-bat defensive specialists starting these days. That’s partly because there are fewer balls in play. Balance that out, somehow, and you’ll start to see more defense-first players again.

As for P hitting, the only benefit I see is that you’re likely to get one extra bench bat on the roster, because you need multiple pinch hitters every game. The easier way to do that would be cap the number of P you can have on the roster at 12.
 
No idea why this wasn't reversed. Why should it even have to be challenged? More replays please. Especially in a potential WS clinching game. It's like the NFL. They automatically review close TDs. Not every one, but really how long would it take to figure out this wasn't an out. Dumb fucks.
 
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Every manager has the same recipe to win these days. The numbers are the numbers.

Hard to believe teams used to have different philosophies -- Whitey Herzog played small ball (lots of infield hits, running around and stolen bases) while Earl Weaver preferred waiting for the 3 run homer -- and both were successful.
 
You can't give AA credit for assembling the core (Acuna, Swanson, Freeman, Fried, Albies, Anderson, Rielly, Anderson) were all there when he arrived. I will give him credit for making smart moves around that core and not trading any of them away for a quick fix. So yes, congrats AA. Bigger props for seeing how shit his division was and going for it smartly with little risk even though he lost his best player. Most teams would have sold off and packed it in at that point.
 
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