OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

Yeah, it's the annoying thing where the analytically correct thing to do is not a fan-favorite. Like, as a fan, I want my team to win more, and if I'm invested in a playoff game, I don't mind too much if it stretches 4 hours. But I also agree that especially with the long regular season, I don't want to watch 3.5 hour games on a daily basis.

Had the World Series ended last night I doubt that many people in the Eastern and Central time zones would have still been awake to see it and of the few who were practically none of them would have been school aged kids, the very fans that every sport tries to cultivate. And I'm not quite sure what the TV networks get out of this deal either. Sure they get their prime time start but the late local news (which, along with the supper hour local news is really the only locally produced content that produces revenue for the affiliates) gets bumped because none of these games finish before midnight or 1am. Nobody is watching by that point and I'll bet a lot of people don't bother watching at all because they know that they'll never still be awake to see how it ends so why bother?

If I were a 10 year old kid today I'd never be a baseball fan because I could never stay up late enough on a school night to watch a playoff game.

If I were MLB I would consider taking less money from the networks in exchange for more autonomy around start times for games, especially playoff games. Right now they're taking the money in the short term but the effect is to slowly kill off the fanbase. If they aren't careful they'll wind up with a fanbase like the CFL where almost nobody under the age of 50 bothers to watch anymore.

 

[JackBurton]

Baseball is still big, but it's a more regional sport than it was in past generations. It's really hard for a game that long, with so many games to excite young fans today. There are some tweeks you can do to speed it up, but there are so many foul balls. Make it 7 innings.

 

[mbow30]

The networks also did ridiculous shit when the jays were in the playoffs. Like 1pm Tuesday games or whatever it was.

 

[UWHabs]

Baseball is still big, but it's a more regional sport than it was in past generations. It's really hard for a game that long, with so many games to excite young fans today. There are some tweeks you can do to speed it up, but there are so many foul balls. Make it 7 innings.

Yeah, I'm a purist for a lot of things, and despite everyone who hated those 7 inning double headers, honestly, I found them quite refreshing. Other than the hell it will cost me at work when MLB changes to that on the morning of opening day, I think switching to 7 innings would be massive, bringing games back into the 2hr and change mark, rather than creeping more and more above the 3hr mark like they have been.

The networks also did ridiculous shit when the jays were in the playoffs. Like 1pm Tuesday games or whatever it was.

I mean, someone gets shafted for those couple "4 game first round" days. But yeah, it's annoying to have a big market but because of stuff, to be treated as less interesting of a team to feature than KC or Detroit or anyone else. You can see it in which teams are picked for the Sunday Night Baseball game - I'm pretty sure it's basically impossible for them to run a Jays game, with the rare exception maybe if they play the Yankees the networks might think about it if the rest of the day's games all feature matchups they don't like.

 

[manny]

I’m not totally opposed to that suggestion, just because the game is getting unwatchable as it is. I’m one of few people I know who is actually interested in the WS this year but even I can’t be bothered when the game is going to crawl it’s way to 1AM.

Before the go to 7 innings through, I want them to try a bunch of other fixes. Pitch clocks, limit the number of pitching changes in a game, change the strike zone, move the mound back, batters have to stay in the box (US college rule), etc. There are lots of way to make 9-inning game come in at 2.5 hours or less before they cut it back. Anyway, a painfully slow-paced 7-inning game wouldn’t be that much better, it would just end earlier.

Major League Miscellaneous Year-by-Year Averages and Totals | Baseball-Reference.com

League year-by-year totals for pitching, fielding, batting and team win totals.

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[LeafOfFaith]

I'm a purist too, but the other cool thing about 7 innings is that you'll have higher quality rosters and theoretically more competitive games. You won't need as many relievers, so just eliminate dozens of jobs for the worst pitchers in the league. You'll also presumably have fewer injuries just by virtue of less playing time, fewer ABs and less time playing the field for all of the players across the board.

 

[manny]

I'm a purist too, but the other cool thing about 7 innings is that you'll have higher quality rosters and theoretically more competitive games. You won't need as many relievers, so just eliminate dozens of jobs for the worst pitchers in the league. You'll also presumably have fewer injuries just by virtue of less playing time, fewer ABs and less time playing the field for all of the players across the board.

Maybe, or you might just see more SP getting pulled in the 2nd or 3rd inning all season long.

There are 9RP on very roster now. You’d probably get three-man rotations and 2 bullpen games per week with 7 inning games lasting 3hrs anyway. Would be even worse.

 

[axlsalinger]

Yeah, I can't get behind this idea at all. Although if they want to keep the 7IP rule for doubleheaders I would understand. I haven't watched a whole lot of playoff action myself, so I do get the point. Also, an "absolutely not" on moving the mound back.

I don't like the idea of the pitch clock either, although apparently the experiment in the minors with it went pretty well so I'm open to it. Definitely should work on reducing pitching changes, speed up replays, maybe a very slight increase to the strike zone and trying to keep batters in the box, the pitch-clock would probably fix that problem because a main reason for this is waiting for the pitcher to throw the fucking ball.

Games starting at 8 or 830 could obviously be moved to 7:00pm EST, though I'm sure the late start helps with ratings on the West Coast.

 

[JackBurton]

7 innings and 150 games+expanded playoffs. Our attention spans will just get worse and worse. baseball needs to catch-up.

 

[GEEMAN]

7 innings and 150 games+expanded playoffs. Our attention spans will just get worse and worse. baseball needs to catch-up.

Expanded playoffs is a must , many teams are done by June

No point getting excited or going to the games

A more balanced schedule would be nice , as well as playoff seeding based on record

Dodgers in a WC game this year is a joke

 

[axlsalinger]

Let's also reduce hockey games to 2 periods. And football /hoops to 3 quarters.

 

[Wayward DP]

Let's also reduce hockey games to 2 periods. And football /hoops to 3 quarters.

because 3 periods of hockey, that used to take 3ish hours to complete, now routinely takes 4+, right?

 

[GEEMAN]

Let's also reduce hockey games to 2 periods. And football /hoops to 3 quarters.

Detroit Lions may have a chance

 

[manny]

Almost 1/4 AB ends in a strikeout now, vs closer to 10% in the 1980s. That means a lot of deep counts and longer, duller games. Rule changes should emphasize putting the ball in play (and not just over the fence).

 

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

Yeah, I'm a purist for a lot of things, and despite everyone who hated those 7 inning double headers, honestly, I found them quite refreshing. Other than the hell it will cost me at work when MLB changes to that on the morning of opening day, I think switching to 7 innings would be massive, bringing games back into the 2hr and change mark, rather than creeping more and more above the 3hr mark like they have been.


I mean, someone gets shafted for those couple "4 game first round" days. But yeah, it's annoying to have a big market but because of stuff, to be treated as less interesting of a team to feature than KC or Detroit or anyone else. You can see it in which teams are picked for the Sunday Night Baseball game - I'm pretty sure it's basically impossible for them to run a Jays game, with the rare exception maybe if they play the Yankees the networks might think about it if the rest of the day's games all feature matchups they don't like.

Just because Sunday Night Baseball gets picked up by TSN doesn't make it a TSN property per se. It's an ESPN game and technically speaking ESPN does not broadcast in Canada and viewers in Canada don't count toward their ratings. It's the same reason why NHL games on US network TV won't ever have Canadian teams featured. It's a steady diet of large US markets (Rangers, Bruins, Flyers, Caps, etc.) week in and week out. You won't see Canadian teams but you also won't see them run a Carolina-Phoenix game either.

 

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

7 innings and 150 games+expanded playoffs. Our attention spans will just get worse and worse. baseball needs to catch-up.

Or, here's a wacky idea, instead of constantly pandering to the lowest common denominator and to the fair-weather fans who, because they don't really care that much, will always find a reason not to watch, how about not further pissing off the fans you actually have? Making structural changes like 7 inning games will render the record books obsolete and in no sport are the records more important to the hard core fans than baseball.

First and foremost, stop scheduling these games to start so late. Second, get rid of the DH and force managers to manage instead of simply filling out their lineup cards and taking a nap in the dugout. Bring back the bullpen golf carts so we don't have to watch a relief pitcher slow walk from the outfield fence to the pitching mound. Put an end to replays and challenges. They just delay the game. Live with the human error. Instruct umps to issue warnings to pitchers who take too long in between pitches. Limit the amount of pitcher-catcher-infielder mound conferences. There are any number of things one could do short of cutting the number of innings to speed things up.

And as for the playoffs, have WC1 play a 3 game series against WC2. WC1 gets to host all 3 games and WC2 is just happy to be there. No travel day. You want to host playoff games? Finish in the first wild card spot next time. The DS and LCS should be best of 5, with only the World Series as a best of 7.

 

[manny]

I don’t agree with most of that, but golf carts from the bullpen and a serious limit on the time taken for a pitching change are needed. Why does a guy need 12 pitches off the mound after warming up in the bullpen for 10 mins?

Do something like 1 min from when the manager leaves the dugout for a pitching change until the RP has to deliver his first pitch. The manager can signal the change on the top step and the RP can get to the mound at the same time. Right now a pitching change takes at least 5 mins. 10 in the postseason.

 

[JackBurton]

Or, here's a wacky idea, instead of constantly pandering to the lowest common denominator and to the fair-weather fans who, because they don't really care that much, will always find a reason not to watch, how about not further pissing off the fans you actually have? Making structural changes like 7 inning games will render the record books obsolete and in no sport are the records more important to the hard core fans than baseball.

First and foremost, stop scheduling these games to start so late. Second, get rid of the DH and force managers to manage instead of simply filling out their lineup cards and taking a nap in the dugout. Bring back the bullpen golf carts so we don't have to watch a relief pitcher slow walk from the outfield fence to the pitching mound. Put an end to replays and challenges. They just delay the game. Live with the human error. Instruct umps to issue warnings to pitchers who take too long in between pitches. Limit the amount of pitcher-catcher-infielder mound conferences. There are any number of things one could do short of cutting the number of innings to speed things up.

And as for the playoffs, have WC1 play a 3 game series against WC2. WC1 gets to host all 3 games and WC2 is just happy to be there. No travel day. You want to host playoff games? Finish in the first wild card spot next time. The DS and LCS should be best of 5, with only the World Series as a best of 7.

OK keep it 9 innings but add hungry tigers in the outfield.

 

[axlsalinger]

Or, here's a wacky idea, instead of constantly pandering to the lowest common denominator and to the fair-weather fans who, because they don't really care that much, will always find a reason not to watch, how about not further pissing off the fans you actually have? Making structural changes like 7 inning games will render the record books obsolete and in no sport are the records more important to the hard core fans than baseball.

First and foremost, stop scheduling these games to start so late. Second, get rid of the DH and force managers to manage instead of simply filling out their lineup cards and taking a nap in the dugout. Bring back the bullpen golf carts so we don't have to watch a relief pitcher slow walk from the outfield fence to the pitching mound. Put an end to replays and challenges. They just delay the game. Live with the human error. Instruct umps to issue warnings to pitchers who take too long in between pitches. Limit the amount of pitcher-catcher-infielder mound conferences. There are any number of things one could do short of cutting the number of innings to speed things up.

And as for the playoffs, have WC1 play a 3 game series against WC2. WC1 gets to host all 3 games and WC2 is just happy to be there. No travel day. You want to host playoff games? Finish in the first wild card spot next time. The DS and LCS should be best of 5, with only the World Series as a best of 7.

Just plain wrong on the DH. Growing up a Blue Jays and American League fan I've always thought that AL baseball was better. I do have some appreciation for the added strategy in the NL, but there is absolutely nothing less interesting in any major sport than watching pitchers hit. It fucking sucks, it has always fucking sucked, and you're taking a position with probably the most injury risk in all of pro sports and asking them to do something they suck at, often leading to extra injuries as well.

I can pretty much guarantee that you will see the DH in the National League starting next year once they have a new CBA, and it's about fucking time.

I don't get the replay argument either. Some things happen so fast you can't see it probably with the naked eye, why would you want to get so many plays wrong for no reasons? Speed it up, hell yes. Get rid of it, hell no.

 

[manny]

One idea I’ve seen is to have a universal DH but have it tied to the starter. Once the SP is out of the game, you lose the DH. It would mostly eliminate the opener strategy and cut way back on bullpen days. Teams would probably want to carry an extra bench bat and maybe less bullpen arms. I’d like to see it tried at least.