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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

I think if I knew the Jays were going to trade Teoscar + Gurriel + Moreno this off-season, I would have expected more than Swanson + Varsho in return. Pretty underwhelming.

I do like that they seem to value OF defense now. That wasn’t obvious at all before.

They still need another OF that can play 100+ games and hit LHP.
 
Leafin' said:


A bunch of those outs look like homers here. Varsho hitting 40 bombs at the dome next year. This is def a win now move. Helps the team.
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Yeah, that's what I was saying. I don't think he'll give a fuck about the shift, but his power could definitely spike in Toronto. Super best case scenario imo is that he becomes a 35 HR 3 outcome guy who provides GG calibre D in RF. I don't see the case for better contact numbers in his batted ball profiles, and I don't see the on base skills for him to overcome that with a fuckton of walks.
 
manny said:
I think if I knew the Jays were going to trade Teoscar + Gurriel + Moreno this off-season, I would have expected more than Swanson + Varsho in return. Pretty underwhelming.
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Yep. That's where I'm at with this. A lot of shuffling deck chairs.
 
On another note, in the last 1.5 years Shapiro and Atkins have traded:

Moreno
Martin
Hoglund
Woods-Richardson

Fuck these guys for ever criticizing AA for using prospect capital to turn his team into a genuine contender.

They’ve had the benefit of twice the budget, more time, and now they’re doing the same thing with their farm system.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
But we used Teo to improve the pen and free up cash to sign Bassitt and Kiermaier
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Sure, but there are better ways to 1) improve the pen & 2) free up cash

I mean, any cash problems they have are entirely self created. 37 million for Ryu, Kukuchi, & Merrifield. I don't blame them for Berrios (that's a move and extension I probably make if I'm in their shoes) but add Berrios and KK and you're talking about 62 million dollars this year on players that provided 3.1 WAR last year.
 
manny said:
On another note, in the last 1.5 years Shapiro and Atkins have traded:

Moreno
Martin
Hoglund
Woods-Richardson

Fuck these guys for ever criticizing AA for using prospect capital to turn his team into a genuine contender.

They’ve had the benefit of twice the budget, more time, and now they’re doing the same thing with their farm system.
Click to expand...

and AA was adding perennial all stars and MVP candidates to the roster.
 
Seems like everything they do is sort of fine? But never anything that looks great or a bold, big swing at something massive that puts them into the next tier. Not sure why people get so upset when they're criticized; it's quite frankly bizarre. I get the appeal in management that plays things safe and thinks your odds are increased by "extending the window" and playing it safe. But I think it's reasonable for people to want a bold, big dick swinging move once in awhile. As opposed to trading legit elite assets for middling talent.
 
Preston said:
Seems like everything they do is sort of fine? But never anything that looks great or a bold, big swing at something massive that puts them into the next tier. Not sure why people get so upset when they're criticized; it's quite frankly bizarre. I get the appeal in management that plays things safe and thinks your odds are increased by "extending the window" and playing it safe. But I think it's reasonable for people to want a bold, big dick swinging move once in awhile. As opposed to trading legit elite assets for middling talent.
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I would argue the Springer signing and Berrios trade and extension ( even if ugly-ish now) are both next tier moves at the time
 
manny said:
I think if I knew the Jays were going to trade Teoscar + Gurriel + Moreno this off-season, I would have expected more than Swanson + Varsho in return. Pretty underwhelming.

I do like that they seem to value OF defense now. That wasn’t obvious at all before.

They still need another OF that can play 100+ games and hit LHP.
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This is fair, but i for one would have expected Gurriell to net nearly nothing in a trade on his own, depth RP range.

Also, if Varsho is this dude a 4.5-5 Win guy ( and he'll only be in a corner OF for 2023) then the Moreno trade is more than okay

Couple things with his stick

Yes shift ban might help, but it is a lazy argument
Park change helps
Being sandwiched between Vlad and Bo surely helps
Giving him more offdays vs LHP probably helps him too.
 
MapleLeafBlueJayBoy said:
I am going to have a fit if these two dummies go into another season with an incomplete team.
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I don't think it's incomplete tbh. There's no super glaring weaknesses that I can see. There's shit they can use of course, but the rotation is good and potentially incredibly good (Manoah-Gausman-Bassitt-Berrios could easily be a top 2-3 rotation in the AL, and we've got a few advanced kids who could steal that 5 spot), the pen is the best we've had in fucked if I can remember how long. Legitimate lights out arms in the 7th-8th-9th now. A pretty good but potentially weird OF (it's turrible against LHP), excellent defensively though regardless. The infield is pretty, pretty good overall with the only real concern their being Bo's D (fuck it's bad). Danny & the Fire Hydrant are a 2 good catchers that can both rake.

It's actually a pretty complete group, my question is how good it can be. Vlad is the only guy I see having the potential to have true star level impact. Instead of murderers row, it's more like an aggravated assaulters row.
 
Preston said:
Seems like everything they do is sort of fine? But never anything that looks great or a bold, big swing at something massive that puts them into the next tier. Not sure why people get so upset when they're criticized; it's quite frankly bizarre. I get the appeal in management that plays things safe and thinks your odds are increased by "extending the window" and playing it safe. But I think it's reasonable for people to want a bold, big dick swinging move once in awhile. As opposed to trading legit elite assets for middling talent.
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I guess I get the impression that the goal every winter is to build a team that is at minimum capable of fighting for the wild card down to the last week of the season, and not to build a team that is an odds on favourite to win the division. Where things like 4 years of control is worth more to them than maximizing competitive chances in this upcoming season. They spent a lot of time and energy trying to build the 2025 wild card roster instead of the 2023 champions.
 
Also, doing my very best to avoid the boomer crowd assuming this deal was done to move on from the juice box, pineapple seeds, and jacket guys to Don Mattingly winner scrappy grumper guys
 
MindzEye said:
I don't think it's incomplete tbh. There's no super glaring weaknesses that I can see. There's shit they can use of course, but the rotation is good and potentially incredibly good (Manoah-Gausman-Bassitt-Berrios could easily be a top 2-3 rotation in the AL, and we've got a few advanced kids who could steal that 5 spot), the pen is the best we've had in fucked if I can remember how long. Legitimate lights out arms in the 7th-8th-9th now. A pretty good but potentially weird OF (it's turrible against LHP), excellent defensively though regardless. The infield is pretty, pretty good overall with the only real concern their being Bo's D (fuck it's bad). Danny & the Fire Hydrant are a 2 good catchers that can both rake.

It's actually a pretty complete group, my question is how good it can be. Vlad is the only guy I see having the potential to have true star level impact. Instead of murderers row, it's more like an aggravated assaulters row.
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Fire hydrant! lol Love it.
 
MindzEye said:
I don't think it's incomplete tbh. There's no super glaring weaknesses that I can see. There's shit they can use of course, but the rotation is good and potentially incredibly good (Manoah-Gausman-Bassitt-Berrios could easily be a top 2-3 rotation in the AL, and we've got a few advanced kids who could steal that 5 spot), the pen is the best we've had in fucked if I can remember how long. Legitimate lights out arms in the 7th-8th-9th now. A pretty good but potentially weird OF (it's turrible against LHP), excellent defensively though regardless. The infield is pretty, pretty good overall with the only real concern their being Bo's D (fuck it's bad). Danny & the Fire Hydrant are a 2 good catchers that can both rake.

It's actually a pretty complete group, my question is how good it can be. Vlad is the only guy I see having the potential to have true star level impact. Instead of murderers row, it's more like an aggravated assaulters row.
Click to expand...
Yeesh, you and Shatkins get a room, will ya.
 
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