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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

I'm all for keeping Manoah, but it does depend on what's going on behind the scenes.

Also, I guess we're doing more made-up examples, so yes they are fools for hypothetically trading Manoah for Dylan Carlson. I made up heard they might trade him for Gunnar Henderson, they're geniuses!
 
axlsalinger said:
I'm all for keeping Manoah, but it does depend on what's going on behind the scenes.

Also, I guess we're doing more made-up examples, so yes they are fools for hypothetically trading Manoah for Dylan Carlson. I made up heard they might trade him for Gunnar Henderson, they're geniuses!
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I guess the difference here is that my proposal makes some degree of sense based on where the perceived value of Manoah from last season should be, and the sort of 2 win ceiling OF these guys seem to like.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
I guess the difference here is that my proposal makes some degree of sense based on where the perceived value of Manoah from last season should be, and the sort of 2 win ceiling OF these guys seem to like.
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Springer was a year removed from a 6.2 War season when they signed him, and they traded for Varsho coming off a 4.8 War season. So I wouldn't say that's correct.

Manoah was really bad last year, by any measure, but still coming off 2 really good years. So if you can't get anything good for him I agree don't trade him. Unless there is a scenario where you have to, in which case India is kind of interesting. Carlson, no.
 
axlsalinger said:
Springer was a year removed from a 6.2 War season when they signed him, and they traded for Varsho coming off a 4.8 War season. So I wouldn't say that's correct.

Manoah was really bad last year, by any measure, but still coming off 2 really good years. So if you can't get anything good for him I agree don't trade him. Unless there is a scenario where you have to, in which case India is kind of interesting. Carlson, no.
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India is barely interesting if Manoah isnt involved, mainly because i have no idea if he can play a good 3B, and the stick is just meh. He feels closer to a guy that is one of the guys we have then an actual upgrade.

If were talking Manoah for him, its a disaster.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
India is barely interesting if Manoah isnt involved, mainly because i have no idea if he can play a good 3B, and the stick is just meh. He feels closer to a guy that is one of the guys we have then an actual upgrade.

If were talking Manoah for him, its a disaster.
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India would likely take over 2b, and then the Biggio/Espinal/Schneider group would have to handle 3b.

He's got the advantage that he puts up a good OBP, so might not be bad to have high in the lineup. And is still only like a few years removed from being a fairly well regarded rookie of the year.

Manoah for Carlson alone yeah is puky unless if you really know that Manoah is never coming back. If it turned into like Manoah for Carlson and Donovan, then maybe that gets mildly interesting since that fills 2 spots, or maybe 1.5 since Carlson probably not counted on for more than platoon duty.
 
UWHabs said:
India would likely take over 2b, and then the Biggio/Espinal/Schneider group would have to handle 3b.

He's got the advantage that he puts up a good OBP, so might not be bad to have high in the lineup. And is still only like a few years removed from being a fairly well regarded rookie of the year.

Manoah for Carlson alone yeah is puky unless if you really know that Manoah is never coming back. If it turned into like Manoah for Carlson and Donovan, then maybe that gets mildly interesting since that fills 2 spots, or maybe 1.5 since Carlson probably not counted on for more than platoon duty.
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There is no world where i want Biggio/Espinal/Schneider manning 3B, it would be a bottom 5 collective 3B offensively and defensively, at least at 2B i know it's "fine" defensively and all to accomodate a high OBP guy who has no power but is controlled. Nah
 
If Manoah has no trade value then don’t trade him, obviously. He can demand a trade, OK, but the guy has zero leverage. If he won’t play in Toronto, he can rot in the minors or on a restricted list. The org has invested many millions in Manoah’s development. Literally. Used their #11 pick on him and gave him $4.547 million USD as a signing bonus.

So it’s probably in everyone’s best interests for Manoah to pitch in Toronto again next year, and if he’s good and still wants out, then trade him.

But sorry, Atkins apologists, if they trade him for pennies on the dollar this off-season, you don’t get to say that he forced their hand. Because he doesn’t have the leverage to force anyone to do anything. That would just be yet another monumental fuck-up by this admin.
 
UWHabs said:
India would likely take over 2b, and then the Biggio/Espinal/Schneider group would have to handle 3b.

He's got the advantage that he puts up a good OBP, so might not be bad to have high in the lineup. And is still only like a few years removed from being a fairly well regarded rookie of the year.

Manoah for Carlson alone yeah is puky unless if you really know that Manoah is never coming back. If it turned into like Manoah for Carlson and Donovan, then maybe that gets mildly interesting since that fills 2 spots, or maybe 1.5 since Carlson probably not counted on for more than platoon duty.
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yeah in this scenario, India would play second. They would still need to bring in a 3B, or re-sign Chapman.
 
manny said:
If Manoah has no trade value then don’t trade him, obviously. He can demand a trade, OK, but the guy has zero leverage. If he won’t play in Toronto, he can rot in the minors or on a restricted list. The org has invested many millions in Manoah’s development. Literally. Used their #11 pick on him and gave him $4.547 million USD as a signing bonus.

So it’s probably in everyone’s best interests for Manoah to pitch in Toronto again next year, and if he’s good and still wants out, then trade him.

But sorry, Atkins apologists, if they trade him for pennies on the dollar this off-season, you don’t get to say that he forced their hand. Because he doesn’t have the leverage to force anyone to do anything. That would just be yet another monumental fuck-up by this admin.
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There is a non-zero chance Manoah is another Ricky Romero. They have way more info than we do, and certainly this dude should in no way be considered untradeable.
 
axlsalinger said:
There is a non-zero chance Manoah is another Ricky Romero. They have way more info than we do, and certainly this dude should in no way be considered untradeable.
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Manoah finished third in Cy Young voting a year ago. My point is that if they trade him, whatever they get back should reflect that.
 
The problem is if he is another Ricky Romero, but thinks he's still the shit and is angry at management for sending him down, he absolutely could just sit out the year.

Again, obviously the best answer is he comes to spring training in better shape, the pitch don't doesn't hurt him, and he can be a legit MLB pitcher. At this stage, I wouldn't necessarily even be that upset if he never comes close to his previous peak, and just turns into another Berrios who can fill a mid-rotation spot. That still has value, and obviously he still would have potential to be what he was before.

But if he comes out and says "I'm not pitching in the minors", and he struggles in spring training, what do you do?
 
Its fairly gross that this team seemingly has zero AAA options that can represent an optionable decent number 5 SP, cause signing decent guys to two way deals, is near impossible, and signing swingman to do both is ungreat.
 
UWHabs said:
The problem is if he is another Ricky Romero, but thinks he's still the shit and is angry at management for sending him down, he absolutely could just sit out the year.

Again, obviously the best answer is he comes to spring training in better shape, the pitch don't doesn't hurt him, and he can be a legit MLB pitcher. At this stage, I wouldn't necessarily even be that upset if he never comes close to his previous peak, and just turns into another Berrios who can fill a mid-rotation spot. That still has value, and obviously he still would have potential to be what he was before.

But if he comes out and says "I'm not pitching in the minors", and he struggles in spring training, what do you do?
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The let him sit. If he refuses to report to the minors then they’ll suspend him. The service clock only runs if he’s in MLB. This isn’t Marner where he can pretend that there are other RFA offers.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Its fairly gross that this team seemingly has zero AAA options that can represent an optionable decent number 5 SP, cause signing decent guys to two way deals, is near impossible, and signing swingman to do both is ungreat.
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Yeah, that's definitely annoying right now. We saw that last year when Manoah went down and the team just had nobody really to replace him with. Even if you just have someone you can bring up for a spot start and give you like 5 innings with a 5.00 ERA, would be nice to have at least someone who can be a stopgap for injuries or spot starts. I mean, maybe someone like Wes Parsons could fill that, but the team definitely needs to find a way to get some pitching depth in the minors.
 
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