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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

axlsalinger said:
That being said, while it may not have mattered anyway because they had so many poor performances and injuries this year, they absolutely should've tried harder to sign Teoscar Hernandez and/or Matt Chapman.
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Ohtani was the only difference mover available
 
I think one aspect Bassitt was saying (when he said he doesn't like to talk about teammates) is that a team needs 3-4 stud hitters. But it was hard to compete with Vladdy sucking the first 4-6 weeks (though he's obviously made up for it since), Bo and Springer basically sucking shit all year long, and Varsho not taking that next step either. Even if you bring in Teo to be your 4th best hitter, if he's your #2 by default it's still not enough.

And all indications are that Chapman and J.D. Martinez weren't interested in signing for reasonable contracts (#ThanksBorass) until it was well into spring training.
 
axlsalinger said:
I think one aspect Bassitt was saying (when he said he doesn't like to talk about teammates) is that a team needs 3-4 stud hitters. But it was hard to compete with Vladdy sucking the first 4-6 weeks (though he's obviously made up for it since), Bo and Springer basically sucking shit all year long, and Varsho not taking that next step either. Even if you bring in Teo to be your 4th best hitter, if he's your #2 by default it's still not enough.

And all indications are that Chapman and J.D. Martinez weren't interested in signing for reasonable contracts (#ThanksBorass) until it was well into spring training.
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One thing that shatkins have consistently done here is rush into FA signings rather than seeing where the market falls.
 
Springer being old and cooked should have been baked in, as should Varsho being just not a good hitter.

Hitting is contagious. Yeah Vlad and Bo struggled to start the year, but when there is absolutely no one behind them in the lineup that teams are remotely afraid to face, it just makes it worse. Also, all it takes is one power hitter on a legit heater in the middle of your order to carry an offence for a month when other guys are struggling.

This offence was built to be mediocre at best. This is what that leads to.
 

All of which is why he feels some of his comments on an episode of the Chris Rose Rotation that dropped Monday — particularly the Blue Jays having some problems that “I don’t think are fixable” and that they “didn’t have a pivot” after Shohei Ohtani chose the Los Angeles Dodgers — were being taken “to the extreme” rather than how he intended.

The problems he sees as unfixable are situational rather than structural, he explained, while the lack of an off-season pivot was a product of market options, not a lack of front-office ambition.

“I think too many people will see that and be like, ‘Oh, (shoot), he’s talking about a massive problem. Things are going really, really bad and they can’t solve them.’ That’s not what I’m saying,” he said. “I’m saying there are variables in the game that you literally cannot change.”

An example of those problems that can’t be fixed, for instance, “I’m going to be 36 next year. You can’t change me to 26. You can’t change age. You can’t change things like that.”

“I think we do an unbelievable job here,” Bassitt said. “I don’t think anyone in the league takes care of families better than the Blue Jays. From a front-office standpoint with the players, we have unbelievable discussions all the time. From the coaching standpoint, they love to listen to us. I think they do an unbelievable job. But there are variables that are issues. The reality is you can’t fix them. (Kevin Gausman) is going to be 34. (Jose) Berrios has a ton of innings on his arm. I would love to have Berrios having 200 career innings and me and Gausy being 24. But that’s just not the reality.

“I would love to have Bo (Bichette) not have two calf injuries this year. That stinks. I would love to have (Jordan) Romano not coming off the surgery. All those different things. There are things that we just can’t fix. They’re what we are handed. … It’s just a frustrating time because so many people here expected to be a World Series contender, to be a great team. And it just didn’t play out that way. That’s it.”

As for the lack of pivot about Ohtani, well, there certainly wasn’t a Plan B on the market, especially with Juan Soto being traded to the New York Yankees by the San Diego Padres, for a package the Blue Jays could not match, in the days before the two-way superstar made his decision.

“The free agent market was Ohtani,” said Bassitt. “There wasn’t like a No. 1 and a No. 2 and a No. 3. It wasn’t that. We went after the biggest guy and, unfortunately, we didn’t get him. … There wasn’t another option. That’s just the reality. So then, OK, we tried to do the best we can. We obviously got Justin Turner and Justin Turner is absolutely no slouch. He did unbelievable things for us. (Isiah Kiner-Falefa) was someone we called ‘The War King’ because he was an unbelievable player. So, we got great players. It was just Ohtani was the best of the best.

“You can’t say the front office didn’t have a goal to be the best possible team. Because they went after the best possible player. Saying that doesn’t even make sense. But we want to be the best team. We want to win a World Series. And I think the front office obviously shares those exact same goals. It’s great to be here when you have a front office that truly believes that. But at the same time, everyone’s frustrated. It is what it is.”
 
MindzEye said:
The spend I suggested would have had a huge impact. A bigger impact than DH only Ohtani.
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That impact was only going to work if the rest of the roster was executing to perfection and it was never going to happen

As mentioned before the pitching staff was lights out last year and was not going to repeat this year

Rest of the roster had to have career years and Vlad needed to be elite from day 1 not after 70 games
 
Was this Jays not giving him that chance or him not wanting to end his career with a couple of meaningless games for another team?
 
JackBurton said:
Was this Jays not giving him that chance or him not wanting to end his career with a couple of meaningless games for another team?
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Seems like he just didn't have it, and he probably didn't want to end his career with a few games where he batted .150.
 
Yeah he was hurt most of the year. But did play 13 games in A ball with a 113 wRC+, ended with 15 games in AAA Buffalo with a 36 wRC+, .143 BA, 43% strikeout rate.
 
It would have been nice to have him have a nice last career season with the Jays for sure. But a couple years in a row he's been hurt and below replacement level, you don't want to string him along for more. And it doesn't sound like he wanted that either. A nice summary article here: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/57...tirement-blue-jays/?source=emp_shared_article

A class act all the way, someone who you know just loved and respected the game his whole career. So close to being able to retire as a career .300/.400/.500 hitter. He's going to be a controversial player when he becomes Hall of Fame eligible. He's a little like a Raines type - someone who relied a lot on walks, so his hits and HR career numbers certainly aren't up to the traditional levels. For some people, he's an obvious case, and there's no argument he should be in. But I think for others, he doesn't have the sexy numbers that a Miggy Cabrera has, despite having virtually identical career WAR. If health and aging could have given him even 2 more seasons at his career average, he's be a lot more obviously of a case. I think in the worst case he'll make it in through a veterans committee, but I am curious how the consensus will look at him when he's on the ballot.
 
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