Montana
Champion
suspect it’s why Cohen was in no great rush to re-sign Alonso, or give him term.
OT: The Toronto Blue Jays
- Thread starter PlayerToBeNamedLater
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suspect it’s why Cohen was in no great rush to re-sign Alonso, or give him term.
UWHabs
Well-known member
You guys are all hilarious.
Because I am not changing my tune. 2 Seasons ago, I wanted to trade Vlad. No one here really debated me on it.
Coming into last year, I wanted to trade Vlad.
If I told you last year at Spring Training that the Jays were going to sign Vlad for $500 mil for the next 10 years, everyone would say "FIRE SHATKINS".
Now everyone is bitching about not giving Vlad $50 per season.
Ok. Everyone here thinks Vlad will hold up for the next 10 years with elite play and not be another Prince Fielder. Cool.
Now you can flame away at me as a Shatkins "lover", or that I have my head in the sand or whatever. But I feel like signing Vlad long-term is like signing Tavares long-term in my gut.
Last 4 Years in fWAR: 6.3, 3.3, 1.3, 5.5. Which averages out to 4.1 fWAR per season. Is that worth $50 mil per year for a bat-only player?
Now I will hang up and take my beating because I am a hopeless Shatkin's ball licker who is blind and swallows everything this FO says and does so you don't have to take me seriously as I am obv trolling.
Thanks Guys
Oh, he is absolutely not going to be worth the price anyone spends on him. The contract will hang over things for the decade that it ran. Especially if it runs 450m or something.
But basically, Shatkins have failed this team so badly in the last 10 years they have been in control that I've basically lost all hope, so if having Vlad stay around the team for his whole career, that's at least a small consolation that we can have.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
From what has been reported, it seems like Vlad was looking for $450-$500. The Jays had previously offered $340, but "significantly" raised their offer, so we have to assume they got up to $400. I thought they would end up around 12/425.You guys are all hilarious.
Because I am not changing my tune. 2 Seasons ago, I wanted to trade Vlad. No one here really debated me on it.
Coming into last year, I wanted to trade Vlad.
If I told you last year at Spring Training that the Jays were going to sign Vlad for $500 mil for the next 10 years, everyone would say "FIRE SHATKINS".
Now everyone is bitching about not giving Vlad $50 per season.
Ok. Everyone here thinks Vlad will hold up for the next 10 years with elite play and not be another Prince Fielder. Cool.
Now you can flame away at me as a Shatkins "lover", or that I have my head in the sand or whatever. But I feel like signing Vlad long-term is like signing Tavares long-term in my gut.
Last 4 Years in fWAR: 6.3, 3.3, 1.3, 5.5. Which averages out to 4.1 fWAR per season. Is that worth $50 mil per year for a bat-only player?
Now I will hang up and take my beating because I am a hopeless Shatkin's ball licker who is blind and swallows everything this FO says and does so you don't have to take me seriously as I am obv trolling.
Thanks Guys
Ultimately, when Vlad says he has "his number", was he asking for $500 million and wouldn't budge? Or was he willing to take less.
I think from a cold hard math perspective, there is no GM in history with an "erection" for the chance to pay a first baseman with weight issues and 2 elite years plus a couple of good but not great seasons under his belt 500 million dollars well into his late 30s.
I am a Jays fan who loves Vladdy, so it's hard to argue against signing him at any price. I agree with the consensus that this should have been done years ago, but it does take 2 sides to sign a contract. Hopefully some numbers will come out on what both sides were offering.
This has been a disaster offseason for a number of reasons, it's hard to argue these guys should keep their jobs when they keep failing to get these key deals done. I understand the argument against re-signing Bo, but that means you work even harder to re-sign Vlad.
Of course it's still possible Vladdy gets to free agency and no one beats the number we offered, and in the end he comes home. But with the Jays recent track record, I wouldn't bet on it. The situation just sucks. Fuck.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
Devers, Casas, Good Prospect. But the problem here is that Devers is a bad third baseman defensively. And this is only going to get worse as he ages, so it wouldn't make any sense to trade for him right now since he is demanding that he should continue to play third base. For how many more years? He's already a negative.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
The Red Sox dont need to offer anything close to as much to get two pending FA's, you maybe, maybe get Casas
axlsalinger
Well-known member
Just a pathetic post. Sure, write a blank cheque to everyone. Who cares, it's not your money, right? Nobody does that in reality. Even the Mets, who have a Zillionaire owner with the highest payroll in the history of North American sports leagues let Pete Alonso go to free agency (losers, fire everyone, right?) and then played hardball with him until he eventually resigned what is essentially a 1 year deal lol.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
On combination of age + performance, there might be 5 bats in MLB more valuable than Vladdy. 9th highest wRC+ in the league over the last 4 seasons in what were likely pre prime seasons. Of those 5, 3 recently signed for 70, 75, and 40 million per with that deal coming 4 years before Vladdy's extension or UFA contract would kick in. This is where the market for elite bats is, he's going to get his number in free agency and if you really wanted him for cheaper, the time to "share risk" on a big ass deal was when he was 22, not 26.
There are erections in front offices all over the league right now, period.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
Nah.
Montana
Champion
Yeah the issue is less about today and more about not getting it done when these guys are young, like we’ve seen a number of the best franchises do.
leafman101
Well-known member
They have a $250 mill payroll and went after Soto and Ohtani.
Let’s not pretend like money is tight here. Intelligence though….
There is no good way to spin a 25 year old home grown superstar getting walked out the door by shitty management, the choice of which one we are better off with is unarguable.
Let’s not pretend like money is tight here. Intelligence though….
There is no good way to spin a 25 year old home grown superstar getting walked out the door by shitty management, the choice of which one we are better off with is unarguable.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Debate what? That we should trade one of the top bats in the league when he's 24 yrs old? What's to debate, it was a stupid idea then and a stupid idea now.
This is a very convenient take on this when what we're actually upset about is that he's not rolling into the 3rd or 4th year of a 12/360 deal or some shit that we signed him too after he put up a ~170 wRC+ as a 22 yr old.
Leafin'
Well-known member
Alonso is not Vlad. Not even close. There is a reason they only gave Alonso short term offers. And I imagine it’s because they’ll be giving Vlad cart Blanche next offfseason.
Losers. Fire absolutely every fucking person in the front office.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Let's also not forget that the number he's at today, by his own admittance, is heavily influenced by watching us, very publicly, go after those two in consecutive off seasons.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Oh, I'm sure you'll just move the goalposts like you do every winter when this comes up again next year after someone posts a tweet announcing Vladdy signing 12/600 or some shit with the Mets.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
I'm not even arguing against this. This situation absolutely sucks and he absolutely should have been re-signed.
manny
Well-known member
We might never find out what the Jays offered or what Vladdy wanted but my guess is that it came down to contract length rather than AAV. When they say it would have made him one of the highest paid players in the league and yet they wanted him to share risk, I’d wager Vlad wanted a 10-12 year deal like other big FA and franchise players can command, while the Jays were at something like 6, and maybe came up to 7 or 8.
Main point is it should have never come to this, they should have extended him years ago.
Main point is it should have never come to this, they should have extended him years ago.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Seriously, even if you want to defend them for not making a bad offer now.
They let it get to this poing by avoiding being risky
They cant draft
they cant develop
their ability to sign FA is at best mid ( and thats with Vlad here)
they are blind to public optics
their " internal valuations" and ability to "read the market" is shit.
Fuck these guys forever.
They let it get to this poing by avoiding being risky
They cant draft
they cant develop
their ability to sign FA is at best mid ( and thats with Vlad here)
they are blind to public optics
their " internal valuations" and ability to "read the market" is shit.
Fuck these guys forever.