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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

DRS has had Gurriel as above average defensively for 3 years straight. UZR has him as average or better in 3 of the last 4 years with only last year being "junk" (more somewhat below average than "junk" but I digress, he wasn't good regardless)

You're sure willing to preach at the alter of defensive value when you're talking about Varsho and the bowling ball behind the plate, but because you're mad Gurriel was genetically gifted with the hair you never had, you're willing to "whatever reason" away his defensive contributions.
 
1st 2yrs (24-25): 149gms, -7.3fld
Next 3yrs (26-28): 319gms, +0.1fld
This Year (29); 133gms, +7.2fld

Maybe he suddenly turned into a good defensive player at age 29. Most likely it's a noisy stat.
 
It looks a whole lot more normal of a progression when you don't stack then into weirdo samples of varying size

Fangraph's "Fielding Runs Above Average"

Yr 1: -5.3
Yr 2: -2.2
Yr 3: +0.2
Yr 4: +3.5
Yr 5: -3.6
Yr 6: +7.2

That looks like 4 straight years of improvement (granted, from a starting point of being well below average...it's almost like it was a new position for him or something....) , a shitty down year after 4 years of progressing into an average+ defender for 2 years straight, and then a return to his improvement as a defender.

It's not like his limitations defensively were based on tools. He runs well and has a great arm. Reading the ball off of the bat and routes are learned skills. Shouldn't be shocking that he's gotten better at it over the years after being transitioned away from being a full time infielder.
 
MindzEye said:
It looks a whole lot more normal of a progression when you don't stack then into weirdo samples of varying size

Fangraph's "Fielding Runs Above Average"

Yr 1: -5.3
Yr 2: -2.2
Yr 3: +0.2
Yr 4: +3.5
Yr 5: -3.6
Yr 6: +7.2

That looks like 4 straight years of improvement (granted, from a starting point of being well below average...it's almost like it was a new position for him or something....) , a shitty down year after 4 years of progressing into an average+ defender for 2 years straight, and then a return to his improvement as a defender.

It's not like his limitations defensively were based on tools. He runs well and has a great arm. Reading the ball off of the bat and routes are learned skills. Shouldn't be shocking that he's gotten better at it over the years after being transitioned away from being a full time infielder.
Click to expand...

Lol. "Four straight years of improvement except the years he didn't".

If you want to believe he's actually suddenly become a very good defensive player at age 29, based on stats that we know don't normalize within even a full season, that's fine.
 
This is not a viable offense to win anything. If not for Vladdy’s HR yesterday, the Sox have been flawless against us. True, the reverse is equally accurate, but we should be shutting them down. They shouldn’t be stifling us like this.
 
Who cares about how good or just ok gurriel is. Or even that they moved on from him.

The issue is that at the end of the day they threw a consistent 20 hr above average bat into that deal for no reason at all.
 
axlsalinger said:
Gurriel has a good arm. Other than that, he is not good defensively.
Click to expand...

"Other than the thing that has made him good defensively, he's not good defensively"

However he arrives at it, he's turned himself into an average or better defender in LF. The UZR & DRS both agree on it. You guys keep talking about him like he's out there fumble fucking everything out there and then throwing a few guys out to make up for it. The guy has 8 career errors in 3500+ innings in LF now.

Shit, and I was even wrong above....he didn't play outfield at all in the Yr 1 I listed above, it was all 2B+SS so omit that as a bad year in the outfield.
 
zeke said:
Lol. "Four straight years of improvement except the years he didn't".
Click to expand...

Year

Year

Singular

zeke said:
If you want to believe he's actually suddenly become a very good defensive player at age 29, based on stats that we know don't normalize within even a full season, that's fine.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to believe what the data tells me. That he was fine defensively, had a bad year last season and a good one this season but that on average, he's turned himself into at least an average LF'er defensively.

You're the one making the same arguments you were making a few years ago, completely fucking unchanged from when you were on your Grichuk > Gurriel hilarity.
 
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