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OT: World Politics

I know you understand the difference between ordinary Palestinians and Hamas, but you often make statements that make it seem like you don't. Which is why I keep pointing it out. There are 19 year old Palestinians that have never seen an election.

A normal human would therefore try to encourage opposition to Hamas, yes? Because it would be good for Palestinians, and also good for Israel, yes?

From AI:

Numerous Israeli and international sources allege that Benjamin Netanyahu deliberately undermined the Palestinian Authority (PA), a secular rival to Hamas, to prevent progress toward a two-state solution. By weakening the PA and allowing Hamas to operate in Gaza, Netanyahu ensured a divided Palestinian leadership, which made it easier to argue that there was "no partner" for peace. This policy is now widely seen as a catastrophic miscalculation that emboldened Hamas and contributed to the conditions that led to the October 7, 2023, attack.

Key elements of the strategy
  • Financial support for Hamas: Israel, under Netanyahu, approved and facilitated the transfer of Qatari funds to Hamas in Gaza. Critics argue this funding helped Hamas consolidate power and build military capabilities.
  • Dividing Palestinians: A key part of Netanyahu's strategy was to keep Fatah in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza divided. He reportedly stated in 2019 that supporting Hamas and transferring money was part of a strategy to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from those in the West Bank.
  • Weakening the PA: While allowing Qatari aid to Hamas, Netanyahu's government reportedly undermined the PA. By tolerating Hamas's rule and avoiding negotiations with a divided leadership, the PA appeared weak.
  • Dismissing warnings: Israeli security services reportedly warned Netanyahu that enabling Qatari funds could strengthen Hamas, but these warnings were allegedly dismissed
More here:

www.timesofisrael.com

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com
 
What did any of this have to do with the last post? Like I said, I'm exhausted from all this subject hopping, without actually addressing anything, just labelling something the way you want it to be in your head because poor dead babies and two years.

The funds that were approved from Qatar were aid that went to things that Israel vetted on the purposes declared on entry, like supplies, wages, fuel, etc., that were intended to keep the place running. If Hamas siphoned off some of the funds and used it to build themselves up, that should be interpreted as Netanyahu supporting the funding of Hamas? It's just like the Gaza famine/supplies bullshit that was blamed on Israel over the last couple of years. They send in aid (for the citizenry of the enemy during war), and Hamas hijacks it, kills for it, sells it, etc. Yet Israel is blamed for it not getting to the Gazans, even though the fucking UN wasn't getting it through to its destination/intended recipients.

I guess they shouldn't have allowed the transfers, allowed conditions to be worse in Gaza, create more unrest and more excuses for Hamas to fire rockets and wage more terror campaigns. Then it would be evil Israel not letting money into Gaza. Evil occupiers and apartheidists. There is never any winning with the public.

The notion that Netanyahu deliberately wanted to enable the further strengthening of Hamas is just unproven nonsensical conspiracy theory. You can argue that policy choices - that ironically were intended to help the Gazan people/society - may have carried the side effect of allowing more money into the hands of Hamas, but again, it is a lose lose proposition. If Israel would be painted as the bad guy anyway, then they maybe should've embraced the role and not allowed the funds to flow. Same argument could be made with this fucking war - since "millions" like yourself are against Israel for fighting it, or the way they had to fight it, and they're wrongly considered war criminals, then maybe they should have actually leveled the place and reduced the population by much more than 1%, and reclaimed the area for itself and put a permanent end to this bullshit once and for all. That makes logical sense, right? If I'm going to be convicted in the court of public opinion for premeditated murder of innocents, then I may as well just fucking commit the crime since it would ensure my own continued safety and existence.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with what I mentioned, and what you started out saying in your last post before you veered to this tangent. Seeing what Hamas is doing to the people there since the "end" of the war is awful. I can't get over that video of them dragging people into a line and executing them in cold blood. It hurt my heart to see the pictures of the two kids they say they murdered this week just because they are trying to punish the father who is part of the opposition. I have come across many videos of Gazans cursing the fuck out of Hamas, praising Israel and Netanyahu, and wanting Israel to finish the job over there and exterminate Hamas like the vermin they are. Yes, I know the difference between normal people and fucking terrorists, and it's beyond awful for innocents to be born over there and have to live under that kind of rule. That said, I don't think it's controversial or inconsistent to say that every fucking monster who celebrated in the streets on October 7, hid hostages in their homes, set off fireworks when Hamas was launching thousands of rockets into Israel, etc., if Hamas kills them like they wanted Hamas to kill Israelis, well fuck them and they fully deserved their fate. But I know that's not everyone.

It's for the decent people in Gaza, and for the people in Israel, that really we shouldn't be stopping to hunt down and smoke every last Hamas fuck that remains over there. They are not going to disarm and slink away into the night. They're still in control and will maintain their control, whether overtly or not, and there should never be another incident that brings us all right back to the same place. In the meantime, decent people in Gaza will die, and the threat against Israel will persist and grow.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Further, I think it’s hilarious that we want all attention on this fucking YR social group when we have actual obvious raging antisemites like Omar, Tlaib, Turner, AOC and others who are actually serving in govt and going against Israel and the Jews every chance they get. But no, this is only a Republican problem and it’s laughable to point to them, their voters, their sympathizers, or to be worried about Mamdani who thinks there’s no problem with globalizing the intifada, and I should be focusing ALL my attention on whatever some fucking waterboy for a Republican is saying in a group chat, when I imagine he’s already out of a job after the news came out.
Click to expand...
Holy shit

You're so far gone you make FlyGuy look sane
 
LeafOfFaith said:
What did any of this have to do with the last post? Like I said, I'm exhausted from all this subject hopping, without actually addressing anything, just labelling something the way you want it to be in your head because poor dead babies and two years.

The funds that were approved from Qatar were aid that went to things that Israel vetted on the purposes declared on entry, like supplies, wages, fuel, etc., that were intended to keep the place running. If Hamas siphoned off some of the funds and used it to build themselves up, that should be interpreted as Netanyahu supporting the funding of Hamas? It's just like the Gaza famine/supplies bullshit that was blamed on Israel over the last couple of years. They send in aid (for the citizenry of the enemy during war), and Hamas hijacks it, kills for it, sells it, etc. Yet Israel is blamed for it not getting to the Gazans, even though the fucking UN wasn't getting it through to its destination/intended recipients.

I guess they shouldn't have allowed the transfers, allowed conditions to be worse in Gaza, create more unrest and more excuses for Hamas to fire rockets and wage more terror campaigns. Then it would be evil Israel not letting money into Gaza. Evil occupiers and apartheidists. There is never any winning with the public.

The notion that Netanyahu deliberately wanted to enable the further strengthening of Hamas is just unproven nonsensical conspiracy theory. You can argue that policy choices - that ironically were intended to help the Gazan people/society - may have carried the side effect of allowing more money into the hands of Hamas, but again, it is a lose lose proposition. If Israel would be painted as the bad guy anyway, then they maybe should've embraced the role and not allowed the funds to flow. Same argument could be made with this fucking war - since "millions" like yourself are against Israel for fighting it, or the way they had to fight it, and they're wrongly considered war criminals, then maybe they should have actually leveled the place and reduced the population by much more than 1%, and reclaimed the area for itself and put a permanent end to this bullshit once and for all. That makes logical sense, right? If I'm going to be convicted in the court of public opinion for premeditated murder of innocents, then I may as well just fucking commit the crime since it would ensure my own continued safety and existence.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with what I mentioned, and what you started out saying in your last post before you veered to this tangent. Seeing what Hamas is doing to the people there since the "end" of the war is awful. I can't get over that video of them dragging people into a line and executing them in cold blood. It hurt my heart to see the pictures of the two kids they say they murdered this week just because they are trying to punish the father who is part of the opposition. I have come across many videos of Gazans cursing the fuck out of Hamas, praising Israel and Netanyahu, and wanting Israel to finish the job over there and exterminate Hamas like the vermin they are. Yes, I know the difference between normal people and fucking terrorists, and it's beyond awful for innocents to be born over there and have to live under that kind of rule. That said, I don't think it's controversial or inconsistent to say that every fucking monster who celebrated in the streets on October 7, hid hostages in their homes, set off fireworks when Hamas was launching thousands of rockets into Israel, etc., if Hamas kills them like they wanted Hamas to kill Israelis, well fuck them and they fully deserved their fate. But I know that's not everyone.

It's for the decent people in Gaza, and for the people in Israel, that really we shouldn't be stopping to hunt down and smoke every last Hamas fuck that remains over there. They are not going to disarm and slink away into the night. They're still in control and will maintain their control, whether overtly or not, and there should never be another incident that brings us all right back to the same place. In the meantime, decent people in Gaza will die, and the threat against Israel will persist and grow.
Click to expand...
It's a very complicated situation, and obviously extremely difficult to resolve. I acknowledge some of the points you make in this post, but on Netanyahu, I have read and heard enough FROM ISRAELIS to know that he has always been part of the problem, not the solution. Even if you approve of the way this war was handled, please consider the possibility that he is a bad person who clings to power hoping to avoid the consequences of his actions.

There will be mistakes and casualties in any war. Just because Israel did attempt to avoid civilian casualties does not mean they didn't act in a reckless manner, far too often. Way too many journalists, doctors, and children were killed here. I understand the fog of war, but when something keeps happening repeatedly, it should be clear that the tactics used were wrong.

There are some terrible people who are part of Hamas and I hope the group can be disbanded completely at some point. I do understand the difficulty of urban warfare and trying to capture everyone associated. Anybody involved in the planning and execution of the attack on October 7 should be arrested and put on trial. Actual terrorists should absolutely be hunted down.

Regular Palestinians deserve to be free of Hamas, and live a normal peaceful life. That is what we all want, and of course the same applies to Israel.

LeafOfFaith said:
You guys are so insanely far to the left, that you can't recognize any of the problems that exist within it (it's just flawless, idealistic political and moral heaven), and think that moderate positions are far right extremism. It's lunacy.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong on this point. The Netanyahu government is far right, as is the Trump Administration. This is not in dispute. We are not expressing some sort of misguided idealism - we are simply evaluating the facts on the ground. Trust me when I say that you are misguided in your assessment of the left. We can perhaps discuss this in more detail at another time.
 
I’m not Netanyahu or Trump.

I’m pro choice, anti guns, and have very different views and approaches to immigration.

So to equate my views to whatever you perceive theirs to be is a leap with no landing.
 
Preston said:
Lof has clearly been radicalized with this one particular issue, but that doesn't make him far right for all issues. It also doesn't mean that he can't be far right or far left on some issues. In fact, that's pretty normal.
Click to expand...

I mean...the old left/right paradigm is based around economic ideology mostly. Extreme capitalism on one end, extreme socialism on the other.
 
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