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OT: World Politics

you always get right to the crux of the matter my liege,,,,

It is a war and like in all wars, the innocents pay the price, the ones orchestrating the war rarely pay the price. Putin won't pay any price even if he loses, Zelensky isn't paying any price now, it is the people and animals in the war zone who likely just want it over
It's not up to Zelensky to pay a price, it's up to him to exact a price from the people who invaded his country and he is doing that.
 
if you say so
You’re clearly smart enough that I can call you out for pretending to be this idiotic ignoramus incapable of using your brain or critical thinking skills when it comes to Ukraine.

I’m not sure why (are you in favour of genocides?) but you should do better.

Use your damn brain. Stop with the fucking bloodlust and lack of humanity.
 
You’re clearly smart enough that I can call you out for pretending to be this idiotic ignoramus incapable of using your brain or critical thinking skills when it comes to Ukraine.

I’m not sure why (are you in favour of genocides?) but you should do better.

Use your damn brain. Stop with the fucking bloodlust and lack of humanity.


I don’t think it’s “blood lust”, tbh. I think it’s just profound indifference and a complete lack of empathy on his part.

He doesn’t give a shit whether or not Ukrainians end up in a free, independent democracy or in the sweet loving embrace of Putin & mother Russia and just wants the war to stop intruding on his news feed. And can’t imagine regular Ukrainians feel any different, if he thinks about them at all.
 
I don’t think it’s “blood lust”, tbh. I think it’s just profound indifference and a complete lack of empathy on his part.

He doesn’t give a shit whether or not Ukrainians end up in a free, independent democracy or in the sweet loving embrace of Putin & mother Russia and just wants the war to stop intruding on his news feed. And can’t imagine regular Ukrainians feel any different, if he thinks about them at all.
yeah this is fair. bloodlust was likely over the top. but the rest of the point still stands. he is being willfully blind to what is happening there.

other bozos who drop in may not know any better but he's been posting here long enough for me to conclude that he does have the capacity for critical thinking. the unwillingness to apply it to this conflict remains frustrating.
 
If you look carefully, The Count is suggesting that the military industrial complex are the only people benefitting from this war of aggression and that the Ukes are NATO pawns.

He has been arguing that we drop support for the Ukes and appease Russia.

If anything, he's been towing a traditionally pacifist line in his arguments.

Though I typically take a similar stance - I believe the US military industrial complex (and the global arms industry) to be the living embodiment of Satan on earth -

In this case though?

We can not. We must not appease illiberal Russia.

Same with China.

I believe that Count is neither blood lusting nor lacking empathy. He has repeatedly been worried about escalation leading to nuclear war.

Though not a supporter of his point of view, I believe that dunking on him in this way is akin to playing after the whistle.

Slava Ukraine!
 
If you look carefully, The Count is suggesting that the military industrial complex are the only people benefitting from this war of aggression and that the Ukes are NATO pawns.

He has been arguing that we drop support for the Ukes and appease Russia.

If anything, he's been towing a traditionally pacifist line in his arguments.

Though I typically take a similar stance - I believe the US military industrial complex (and the global arms industry) to be the living embodiment of Satan on earth -

In this case though?

We can not. We must not appease illiberal Russia.

Same with China.

I believe that Count is neither blood lusting nor lacking empathy. He has repeatedly been worried about escalation leading to nuclear war.

Though not a supporter of his point of view, I believe that dunking on him in this way is akin to playing after the whistle.

Slava Ukraine!
he's had plenty of opportunities to articulate this position and has chosen not to.

instead he parrots Russian talking points.

you give him far too much credit here.

and we've seen tons of escalations - by the fucking Russians. he doesn't seem concerned about those.
 
My boss has similar sentiments, it's frustrating when we start talking around that. Basically would rather the West just give in and settle with Russia, give up the territory Russia wants just to end the war. But something in history tells me that appeasement historically has not been a good policy choice...
 
My boss has similar sentiments, it's frustrating when we start talking around that. Basically would rather the West just give in and settle with Russia, give up the territory Russia wants just to end the war. But something in history tells me that appeasement historically has not been a good policy choice...
I mean the thing these people won't admit when they advocate positions like that is that they're effectively supporting a genocide of the Ukrainian people. That's where you lose me.

Genocide seems like a reasonable line in the sand, but apparently not for everyone. And let's be perfectly clear - if we just let Putin and Russia do as they want, that's exactly what they would be aiming for. They've been saying as much openly for months now.
 
My boss has similar sentiments, it's frustrating when we start talking around that. Basically would rather the West just give in and settle with Russia, give up the territory Russia wants just to end the war. But something in history tells me that appeasement historically has not been a good policy choice...


The frustrating thing with the tankies who want Ukraine to surrender for the sake of “peace” is you don’t even have to go back far back into history on this.

The world’s response to Putin invading and conquering chunks of Ukraine back in 2014 was essentially appeasement. Did that lead to peace?
 
The frustrating thing with the tankies who want Ukraine to surrender for the sake of “peace” is you don’t even have to go back far back into history on this.

The world’s response to Putin invading and conquering chunks of Ukraine back in 2014 was essentially appeasement. Did that lead to peace?

What if he pinky swears this time he won't advance further?
 
The prime motivation for Russian foreign policy, including this war, is regime survival. They effectively put other domestic policy into a coma, and turn foreign policy into domestic policy. Ruskie Mir, WW2 death cult, FSB active measures, insane school curriculum, etc. This approach was largely caused by the counter reaction to the 2012 protests in Moscow about Putin’s reelection, which he views as a CIA plot (even though the US had pivoted to China and Russia was in the G8.) For some reason, Putin and his group simply refuse to believe ordinary Russians wanted agency and think for themselves (hat tip to Stinky re: illiberal point.)

Anyway, it worked brilliantly in 2014 and somewhat in 2016. The problem is that it’s a like a drug, they need to amp up the dose as time goes on or circumstances change. So with the collapse in oil prices (2015), a poor economy and the bungled response to COVID, the regime was feeling vulnerable, especially since there is no path for an orderly succession. Putin fears the Gaddafi solution, and the New Russian Nobility, a merger of ex KGB and organized crime has a lot to lose if reform comes to Russia (or more likely, IMO, another group of gangsters take over.)

So this is the result. War with the west, the regime needs to do this to survive. It extends beyond Ukraine. It has to to be effective. The regime fully intends to challenge Article 5 and smash the EU. They want Russians to be perpetually engaged on war, foreign enemies, etc. etc. but never on their own domestic situation.

So, I can give Count benefit of the doubt and wave away MAGA talking points as a matter of convenience. But to suggest this is simply Russia-Ukraine and why risk this going WMD (though a smashed dam is WMD) is plainly wishful thinking. It has come to this because the Russian regime wants it.
 
Everyone knows that the military industrial complex gets rich off of war but that doesn't make all wars unnecessary. If Russia invaded Canada we would be honor bound to fight, not surrender, even though the odds were against us. At some point you have to take a stand, even if it's life-threatening to do so. If self-preservation was all that mattered to us, we'd all be speaking German right now.

Count supports a Ukrainian surrender because he has determined that supporting the Ukrainians is "woke". It's the same reason he ridicules mask mandates and supports DeSantis in his signature line. Mostly, he just doesn't like being inconvenienced. Covid forced him to cancel a vacation and it prevented him from going to Disneyworld for the umpteenth time so he's pissed off. The war caused gas prices to go up and that big honkin' SUV he drives costs money to fill. He resents the fact that the Habs' Cup run occurred with nearly no fans in the arenas.

It all boils down to inconvenience and grievance.
 
If self-preservation was all that mattered to us, we'd all be speaking German right now.


Well…definitely not all of us. If you catch my meaning. Though that only serves to reinforce your point.

And Count shouldn’t resent Covid for forcing the Habs to go on their finals run in front of empty buildings. Covid is entirely the reason it was even possible for them to go on that run in the first place. They were all but mathematically eliminated from the playoffs that year otherwise.
 
Well…definitely not all of us. If you catch my meaning. Though that only serves to reinforce your point.

And Count shouldn’t resent Covid for forcing the Habs to go on their finals run in front of empty buildings. Covid is entirely the reason it was even possible for them to go on that run in the first place. They were all but mathematically eliminated from the playoffs that year otherwise.
Like I said, none of his views are motivated by any high minded philosophy. It's simply "this inconveniences me therefore I don't like it."
 
Well…definitely not all of us. If you catch my meaning. Though that only serves to reinforce your point.

And Count shouldn’t resent Covid for forcing the Habs to go on their finals run in front of empty buildings. Covid is entirely the reason it was even possible for them to go on that run in the first place. They were all but mathematically eliminated from the playoffs that year otherwise.
Corey Perry’s knee says hi! 🤣🤣🤣
 
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