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OT: World Politics

MindzEye said:
But shelling the civilians evacuating on the one side while not allowing the civilians on the other side to get out is nazi level shit. They're just trying to cause pain until it breaks Ukraines will.
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I don’t think the shelling of the evacuating civilians is even that strategic.

Just pure rage and revenge against the “Hohols” for betraying their “brother nation” and rightful imperial overlords by siding with “the west” against them.

And I think we’re only going to see more of this kind of senseless behaviour the more Russia suffers setbacks in the field.
 
LeafGm said:
I don’t think the shelling of the evacuating civilians is even that strategic.

Just pure rage and revenge against the “Hohols” for betraying their “brother nation” and rightful imperial overlords by siding with “the west” against them.

And I think we’re only going to see more of this kind of senseless behaviour the more Russia suffers setbacks in the field.
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Yup, for having the audacity to turn away their charity for letting them join Russia.
 
Reminds me of WW2 bombing of civilians. The Germans tried to break the will of the British by bombing their cities on a nightly basis for months on end. All it did was stiffen British resolve. But then the British (and later Americans also) bombed German cities back to the Stone Age, expecting a different result. If British civilians weren't going to break under the bombing why did the Brits think that the German civilians would?

The answer is that they knew they wouldn't. They didn't bomb Germany, or Japan for that matter, thinking that it would change hearts and minds. They did it because they could, just to kill people for the sake of killing them. The cruelty is the point of the exercise.
 
After the post-WW1 Big Lie led the revanchism and the rise of the Nazis, the Americans made sure it was 100% crystal clear Germany lost the war. No amount of resentful propaganda or blame of internal traitors could overcome that finality.

That’s the problem we have with Russia today. Losing the Cold War, and they lost decisively, has created the same dynamic as Versailles.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Reminds me of WW2 bombing of civilians. The Germans tried to break the will of the British by bombing their cities on a nightly basis for months on end. All it did was stiffen British resolve. But then the British (and later Americans also) bombed German cities back to the Stone Age, expecting a different result. If British civilians weren't going to break under the bombing why did the Brits think that the German civilians would?

The answer is that they knew they wouldn't. They didn't bomb Germany, or Japan for that matter, thinking that it would change hearts and minds. They did it because they could, just to kill people for the sake of killing them. The cruelty is the point of the exercise.
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Yeah, the notion that aerial or other kinds of bombardment can be used to break a population’s will and make them support capitulation to their invaders has been thoroughly debunked. By WW2 especially but also in other conflicts since.

In every instance it unifies your victims in their hatred of you and desire to resist.

And as idiotic as Russia’s prosecution of this war has been in many ways, I don’t think they’re ignorant of this. Which is why I think the shelling of refugees from the destroyed dam or missile attacks on Kyiv are all just pure revenge.

Partly for Putin personally, but also as a face-saving measure in front of the Russian public, since regime survival has got to be a major calculation in every decision they make at this point.
 
LeafGm said:
Yeah, the notion that aerial or other kinds of bombardment can be used to break a population’s will and make them support capitulation to their invaders has been thoroughly debunked. By WW2 especially but also in other conflicts since.

In every instance it unifies your victims in their hatred of you and desire to resist.

And as idiotic as Russia’s prosecution of this war has been in many ways, I don’t think they’re ignorant of this. Which is why I think the shelling of refugees from the destroyed dam or missile attacks on Kyiv are all just pure revenge.

Partly for Putin personally, but also as a face-saving measure in front of the Russian public, since regime survival has got to be a major calculation in every decision they make at this point.
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if Russia cannot have it, nobody can.

they'd rather destroy Ukraine completely than just lose and leave.

if/when they know they are losing, watch out. that's when the really, really horrific stuff picks up.

in particular, I'm concerned about Zaporizhzhia NPP...
 
Wayward DP said:
if Russia cannot have it, nobody can.

they'd rather destroy Ukraine completely than just lose and leave.

if/when they know they are losing, watch out. that's when the really, really horrific stuff picks up.

in particular, I'm concerned about Zaporizhzhia NPP...
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Yeah, Zap is a major worry.

If it looks like Russia’s going to lose their land bridge to Crimea and/or Crimea itself, I’d be shocked if they don’t engineer some sort of nuclear disaster there.
 
lecoqsportif said:
After the post-WW1 Big Lie led the revanchism and the rise of the Nazis, the Americans made sure it was 100% crystal clear Germany lost the war. No amount of resentful propaganda or blame of internal traitors could overcome that finality.

That’s the problem we have with Russia today. Losing the Cold War, and they lost decisively, has created the same dynamic as Versailles.
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Patton was right btw. He said "we're here, let's continue into Moscow."

Allies had enough death. Sometimes I wonder if they just shouldn't have done it. The American war apparatus was in full industrial swing while Russia was on fumes.
 
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