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Religion

Re: OT: American Politics

bought that for my dad. I've been meaning to read it. thanks for the reminder.

but yeah that's a broad definition of "religion". sounds more like just being able to share/assume common beliefs or ideas.
 
Re: OT: American Politics

Sounds interesting. I do also think religion (or at least spirituality/morality) probably helped develop up as a society. Animals will fight or kill each other over a mate, whereas for the most part, humans have evolved past that. And I would likely chalk up a lot of that to religion.

Of course, religion has also been the cause of many great conflicts and wars of the past, and has been persecuting people ever since they started. Although we are now somewhat moving past religion, with more and more countries having larger and larger atheist/secular bases. Will certainly be interesting to see how it keeps shifting, what the church(es) do to try to stay relevant.
 
Re: OT: American Politics

zeke said:
bought that for my dad. I've been meaning to read it. thanks for the reminder.

but yeah that's a broad definition of "religion". sounds more like just being able to share/assume common beliefs or ideas.
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Yeah for sure. God isn't a necessary part of the equation (see: capitalism, communism, human rights), but it all started with God.
 
Re: OT: American Politics

leafman101 said:
Anyone read Sapiens by Yuval Harari? Its a very interesting read about the history of our species and how we got here.

It changed my perspective on religion. Religion has absolutely caused a ton of damage throughout history, but his argument is it is also one of the most important developments in the rise of our species. Essentially the argument is humans are genetically programmed to live in small communities of 150 or less, which we did for most of human history. What allowed us to exceed our genetic limitations and cooperate on a global level is our ability to communicate about things that do not actually exist e.g. god, money, corporations, rights. No other species has shown the ability to do this. Other primates can communicate about things which exist, or even lie about things which exist, for example monkeys have been observed yelling "LION" when there is no lion to scare other monkeys away from food. However, humans are the only ones that have evidence of mythology which goes back 100,000 years to cave drawings of humans with lion heads etc. This includes other human species.

The ability to communicate about myths allowed the creation common ground and trust between different small human tribes to cooperate in larger and larger groups. It created goals beyond the survival of your tribe. This trust extended beyond language barriers, geographic barriers. This allowed sapiens to come together and trade, worship, build structures like Stone Henge or Gobeckli Tepe, and that opened pandora's box. Trade leads to a currency, which leads to specialization, to the point where we have a market driven world entirely based on trust between a small number of large tribes.

His definition of religion is broad and includes things like capitalism, liberalism etc. which are far more powerful today than theistic religions. People have historically, and continue, to exploit religion for personal gain, however, religion is also fundamentally important to humans evolving much faster than our genetics allow.

Anyway great book.
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Absolutely, I've always thought there had to be an evolutionary component to religion, be it good or bad in the long run.

Here's the real difference between us and all the other animals on the planet-we're the only species on the planet that doesn't just rut whenever and wherever they are, every other creature on this planet does not care who's watching.

Think about it.:smilielol5:
 
Re: OT: American Politics

yeah, for sure, i never actually blame religion for anything - religion is a natural part of human existence. it's not some alien thing forced on us that we can just get rid of.
 
Re: OT: American Politics

leafman101 said:
Anyone read Sapiens by Yuval Harari? Its a very interesting read about the history of our species and how we got here.

It changed my perspective on religion. Religion has absolutely caused a ton of damage throughout history, but his argument is it is also one of the most important developments in the rise of our species. Essentially the argument is humans are genetically programmed to live in small communities of 150 or less, which we did for most of human history. What allowed us to exceed our genetic limitations and cooperate on a global level is our ability to communicate about things that do not actually exist e.g. god, money, corporations, rights. No other species has shown the ability to do this. Other primates can communicate about things which exist, or even lie about things which exist, for example monkeys have been observed yelling "LION" when there is no lion to scare other monkeys away from food. However, humans are the only ones that have evidence of mythology which goes back 100,000 years to cave drawings of humans with lion heads etc. This includes other human species.

The ability to communicate about myths allowed the creation common ground and trust between different small human tribes to cooperate in larger and larger groups. It created goals beyond the survival of your tribe. This trust extended beyond language barriers, geographic barriers. This allowed sapiens to come together and trade, worship, build structures like Stone Henge or Gobeckli Tepe, and that opened pandora's box. Trade leads to a currency, which leads to specialization, to the point where we have a market driven world entirely based on trust between a small number of large tribes.

His definition of religion is broad and includes things like capitalism, liberalism etc. which are far more powerful today than theistic religions. People have historically, and continue, to exploit religion for personal gain, however, religion is also fundamentally important to humans evolving much faster than our genetics allow.

Anyway great book.
Click to expand...

I’m going to check it out thanks.
 
Re: OT: American Politics

zeke said:
bought that for my dad. I've been meaning to read it. thanks for the reminder.

but yeah that's a broad definition of "religion". sounds more like just being able to share/assume common beliefs or ideas.
Click to expand...

Yep, especially policing the masses. That and the fear of death were the main motivators IMO.
 
Re: OT: American Politics

Sapiens is a great book. His argument is that sapiens rose to the top of the food chain because they were able to use the power of storytelling to unite a vast amount of individuals (beyond a small tribe) to work together.

Religion is a story. So is money. the nation state, etc.

His subsequent book, about the future, Homos Deus is also fascinating.
 
Re: OT: American Politics

CH1 said:
Sapiens is a great book. His argument is that sapiens rose to the top of the food chain because they were able to use the power of storytelling to unite a vast amount of individuals (beyond a small tribe) to work together.

Religion is a story. So is money. the nation state, etc.

His subsequent book, about the future, Homos Deus is also fascinating.
Click to expand...

ill wait for the movie
 
Re: OT: American Politics

Habsy said:
He send you a text on it or something?

Curious evangelicals want to know.
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That's a show on CBC now, fyi.
"God texted me" or somesuch.
Have been done with the org religious stuff for about 35+ years now, have ID'd as an atheist for about 20 or so, but I have some friends and family that are into it, I don't troll them or anything.
Was at my best friend's dad's funeral last year and the priest started going on about Earth being 6,000 years old and I twitched visibly but regained my composure.
The Sapiens book looks cool, I'll order it at some point.
One of my other friends is an Anglican atheist, that's....interesting at times. He likes the ceremony and art and music and so on, but rejects a lot of the precepts.
 
Re: OT: American Politics

KingTucker said:
Fre(y)ja >>.
Dude, she had a chariot pulled by CATS and a boar she would hunt around and shit, iirc.
That's amazing.
Just the Nordic pantheon by itself is pretty sweet.
Click to expand...

Yeah, gods and religion back then had some style.

Current religious figures are boring as hell.
 
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Re: OT: American Politics

CH1 said:
Sapiens is a great book. His argument is that sapiens rose to the top of the food chain because they were able to use the power of storytelling to unite a vast amount of individuals (beyond a small tribe) to work together.

Religion is a story. So is money. the nation state, etc.

His subsequent book, about the future, Homos Deus is also fascinating.
Click to expand...


The TV is the storyteller we all gather around now.
 
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