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Some Thoughts on Dave Nonis

Nonis' body language is the result of the league's highest scoring team in December going into freefall since then. His coach was fired, and his "star" signing of Crapson was wasting space on our roster. Of course he's been on the hotseat.
But again - he's still here.
This team kept Carlyle too long. Now they're keeping Nonis too long. Both of them should have been gone last summer, if this management was truly interested in "fixing" it.
 
Pucklosopher said:
In the context of the Shanahan council, Nonis has been fine. He lends experience and networking to a group with neither. And they've done well so far. In this market, I think you need more than one person atop, otherwise you will lose your mind with the collective pressure of a rabid fanbase, MLSE, and the media. Also, he helps to shield Dubas from some of that pressure at the moment.

Nonis being the sole man atop was just setting him up to fail. Especially since it was by none of his own volition and MLSE just suddenly thrust it all on his shoulders. The Clarkson contract was a result of that pressure more than it was him being stupid, IMO. In every other situation, Nonis has been very deliberate and calculated. He's not ever going to be Burke, with his big splashy moves, but Nonis isn't dumb.
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Very nicely said.

He's been fine since Shanahan came in and dumped Poulin and Loiselle and added a bunch of smart people. So far, under this new group things have been done properly. Give him some more slack in his current position.

All that said, I would not have him as a GM who makes the key strategic direction, organizational hirings and key personnel decisions. Since he doesn't have that now, I'm fine with him.
 
Pronger84 said:
How would u explain Neely breathing down Chia's and Juliens neck, going as far as threatning to fire them if Boston fails to make the playoffs?
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That's a totally different thing.

A demanding boss who threatens to fire your ass if you don't deliver, is still different from a boss who tampers with your everyday job and makes decisions FOR YOU.

Neely and Chia is the former, Shanny and Nonis is the latter.

The former is still following organization reporting structure, the latter is not.
 
Its not tampering and making decisions for you. Neely is the boss. Shanny is the boss. Nothing happens without their approval.

The Leafs have a very clear organization reporting structure. Shanny is at the top.
 
leafman101 said:
Its not tampering and making decisions for you. Neely is the boss. Shanny is the boss. Nothing happens without their approval.

The Leafs have a very clear organization reporting structure. Shanny is at the top.
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Right ... I guess that's the reason why the Leafs are the only team in the NHL where the assistant coaches are hired by the GM, not the headcoach, and the GM's own assistants are hired by his President, not himself, and the President himself will soon report to a CEO who didn't hire him.

Makes perfect sense to me.
 
number17 said:
Right ... I guess that's the reason why the Leafs are the only team in the NHL where the assistant coaches are hired by the GM, not the headcoach, and the GM's own assistants are hired by his President, not himself, and the President himself will soon report to a CEO who didn't hire him.

Makes perfect sense to me.
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The Leafs' front office structure has been a cluster**** for a while, but aside from the CEO position being in flux, the rest is hopefully coming into shape.

Shanahan's in charge. He hired all his assistants, and he's either going to hire his own GM, or he's going to decide Nonis is his guy to carry out the day-to-day duties of the GM. Presumably, they're going to clear out the current coaching staff and the brain trust (again, with Shanahan making the final decision) will hire a new head coach, who will then hire his own assistants.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
LeafGm said:
The Leafs' front office structure has been a cluster**** for a while, but aside from the CEO position being in flux, the rest is hopefully coming into shape.

Shanahan's in charge. He hired all his assistants, and he's either going to hire his own GM, or he's going to decide Nonis is his guy to carry out the day-to-day duties of the GM. Presumably, they're going to clear out the current coaching staff and the brain trust (again, with Shanahan making the final decision) will hire a new head coach, who will then hire his own assistants.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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I'm cautiously optimistic this time around, the first big step is ownership has admitted there's a big problem and the first step is always admittance. Secondly, Rogers/Bell has signed off on a 3-5 year rebuild, this is the first time in my life as a leafs fan that I ever remember ownership allowing this which is another huge step forward. The next big thing is whether or not Shanahan fires Nonis, if so who does he bring in?
 
Someone who shares a similar vision and is willing to rebuild long term. Rob Blake was rumoured before.
 
front office talent is THE most important thing in sports.

you cannot win without it, no matter how much on ice talent falls into your lap.

it shocks me that the same people who are so certain the rare on ice talent hascto be cleared out at all costs are fine with keeping incompetent boobs in key management positions.
 
I agree in theory Zeke, you do need a well rounded front office filled with astute hockey minds and business minds too. However, to me it goes deeper and beyond management, to me you need owners who have a crystal clear vision not just short term but long term of where a business should head, it trickles down from there.
 
P84, if only you were said owner, so that you could make some heads roll and get this team on the right track.

#trickledowneffect
 
LeafGm said:
The Leafs' front office structure has been a cluster**** for a while, but aside from the CEO position being in flux, the rest is hopefully coming into shape.

Shanahan's in charge. He hired all his assistants, and he's either going to hire his own GM, or he's going to decide Nonis is his guy to carry out the day-to-day duties of the GM. Presumably, they're going to clear out the current coaching staff and the brain trust (again, with Shanahan making the final decision) will hire a new head coach, who will then hire his own assistants.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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I agree. I think it is improving, presumably with Shanny picking his own GM of choice soon (who will then pick his own coach, and then his own assistant coaches). But you are right, it has been a mess for a while, pretty much started sliding since Burke left.

Now Im still very much on the fence in Shanny but I can have hope in him. I think the hiring of Hunter and Dubas are wise moves and also un-traditional at the same time, which tells me this is a man who's thinking outside of the box. However his decision to extend Carlyle, rooted for Bolland etc ... do leave some doubts in my mind.

It shouldn't have been tough to come to the conclusion that you need to dismantle the core and retool / rebuild the team. The question is once you started taking it apart how do you rebuild it. This should be a very telling summer of Shanny's competence as a NHL exec.
 
Yeah, it's a huge summer for Shanahan for sure. I haven't really been willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt---mostly owing to the fact that he has zero executive experience, and he chose to keep Nonis, Carlyle and the entire core of the team coming into this season.

Since then, I like the free agent deals the Leafs signed in the summer. I like the guys he's hired for his front office. I like that he fired Carlyle even though we were in a playoff spot at the time, because the Leafs were still consistently playing their brain-dead 40-50 shots against per night style of hockey. I like that he's prepared to blow up the failed core of this team, instead of just trying to slap some more band-aids on it. I like that we sold off all the rentals for good future returns, and I love that an outside-the-box solution was used to rid ourselves of David Clarkson's onerous cap hit, and toxic presence on our roster. I love that, in spite of his desire to move them out, he didn't wilt under the pressure and accept one of the horrid deals he was probably offered for the likes of Bozak, Phaneuf or Lupul on deadline day.

So, while he's still a long way from having earned my trust, I think better of him than I did at the beginning of the season. Hopefully he can continue to improve that in the off-season.
 
I can't imagine Nonis would enjoy being marginalized to this degree. Major decisions of his are in the process of being reversed...the coming Phaneuf trade being another example.

Wouldn't be shocked to see him end up in Calgary by the fall.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
P84, if only you were said owner, so that you could make some heads roll and get this team on the right track.

#trickledowneffect
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Heh I wish. I don't have the type of money to purchase MLSE, and I don't have the business degrees required either, it be quite the dream though to own the franchise however.
 
LeafGm said:
Yeah, it's a huge summer for Shanahan for sure. I haven't really been willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt---mostly owing to the fact that he has zero executive experience, and he chose to keep Nonis, Carlyle and the entire core of the team coming into this season.

Since then, I like the free agent deals the Leafs signed in the summer. I like the guys he's hired for his front office. I like that he fired Carlyle even though we were in a playoff spot at the time, because the Leafs were still consistently playing their brain-dead 40-50 shots against per night style of hockey. I like that he's prepared to blow up the failed core of this team, instead of just trying to slap some more band-aids on it. I like that we sold off all the rentals for good future returns, and I love that an outside-the-box solution was used to rid ourselves of David Clarkson's onerous cap hit, and toxic presence on our roster. I love that, in spite of his desire to move them out, he didn't wilt under the pressure and accept one of the horrid deals he was probably offered for the likes of Bozak, Phaneuf or Lupul on deadline day.

So, while he's still a long way from having earned my trust, I think better of him than I did at the beginning of the season. Hopefully he can continue to improve that in the off-season.
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SAme here. I like the Carlyle firing despite we're in a playoff position then, I like the personnel he's hired, and I like how he doesn't have to be the focal point of the team but he's slowly been implementing changes among the team exec's.

Also agree with Pep that I won't be surprised to see Nonis end up in Calgary by the fall. The more intriguing question is who is the Leafs' next GM?! Shanny isn't openly searching for a new GM (not according to reports anyways) which probably means he either has a candidate internally (Hunter), or this is linked to the upcoming coach hiring - who could play a role in the GM position as well ...
 
Volcanologist said:
I can't imagine Nonis would enjoy being marginalized to this degree. Major decisions of his are in the process of being reversed...the coming Phaneuf trade being another example.

Wouldn't be shocked to see him end up in Calgary by the fall.
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He just signed a big money extension though...he's not walking away from that.
 
MindzEye said:
He just signed a big money extension though...he's not walking away from that.
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Yeah, the only way Nonis is leaving is if he's fired. He's still got three years left on that deal, and I'm pretty sure he's among the higher-paid GM's in the league.

I think the idea of Nonis being "marginalized" is also over-stated. He's just gone back to doing the same job he was hired to do in Toronto in the first place; handle the day-to-day duties of a GM, and be part of a front office team, while another guy (Burke then, Shanahan now) ultimately calls all the shots.
 
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